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Contents

Happy New Year!

Say hello to 2021!--Ben41 (talk) 03:07, 1 January 2021 (EST)

Scarface-m16c.jpg
Cheers, everybody! Here's hoping that 2021 goes better than 2020. Pyr0m4n14c (talk) 12:20, 1 January 2021 (EST)
Same to you. Fingers crossed. --Jcordell (talk) 01:30, 2 January 2021 (EST)
Amen to that. --Dan San (talk) 13:29, 2 January 2021 (EST)

Need help classifying something

So, I've been working on a side-project for a while, and in the process, I've added a fair few new gun images to the site. Normally, I'd just put them on the appropriate gun page, or on the relevant category page if it doesn't have a page of its own. Problem, is, I just added this:

6P62 - 12.7x108mm

This here is, as the caption suggests, a 6P62. It's a Russian prototype, it's chambered in 12.7x108mm, and it's full-auto. It was never meant for long-range use (you can't find an image of this thing online with a scope, and it'd probably beat one to death if you tried), so it can't go under Sniper Rifles; it's full-auto, so it can't go with the Semi-Auto Rifles, it fires a round too big to be an Assault Rifle, Battle Rifle, or Light Machine Gun, and it's a man-portable, non-fixed-mounted gun, so it can't be a Heavy Machine Gun either. Where should I put this thing? BrandonColeford1992 (talk) 02:25, 5 January 2021 (EST)

Miscellaneous section of the rifle category maybe?--Aidoru (talk) 02:39, 5 January 2021 (EST)
It was originally intended as a "Ручной крупнокалиберный пулемёт 6П62" (Handheld Large-Caliber Machine Gun 6P62), so we can specify it as a machine gun Pustelga7 (talk) 03:59, 5 January 2021 (EST)
At some point, I had a discussion with someone else here regarding this gun. It can go to the machine gun category. It seems to be rare case of a heavy machine gun that is actually man-portable. Sometimes it's also referred to as an anti-materiel rifle; if we choose this one, we can simply list it under the general "Rifles" category. --Ultimate94ninja (talk) 07:20, 5 January 2021 (EST)
See, I don't really think we can put it in "Rifles", since there's no subcategory for full-auto rifles, and creating one would just result in a big mish-mash of all the assault rifles and select-fire battle rifles. I could get behind calling it an HMG, but I'd still call it a bit strange given that it's a gun one person can (ostensibly) pick up and fire. Maybe we could create a dedicated Anti-Materiel Rifle category? Sure, it would contain a bunch of guns that are already in the Sniper Rifle category, but then again, we have separate categories for Grenade Launchers and UBGLs, so it's not like it'd be unprecedented. Plus, this way we could remove the AT rifles from the Sniper Rifle category, since they really don't fit the bill. Oh, and speaking of AT, I have another discussion to write in. BrandonColeford1992 (talk) 01:08, 6 January 2021 (EST)
Then just put it in the machine gun category.--Wuzh (talk) 00:07, 7 January 2021 (EST)
Fair enough. Still think that the AMR category idea holds some water, though. BrandonColeford1992 (talk) 01:20, 7 January 2021 (EST)

Category Proposals

How about a category for films in the US National Film Registry? As iconic films, these are likely among the first articles a newcomer would check, and their cultural importance makes documenting them of particular note. Of lesser note, we have at least four films (Operation Kid Brother, Per Aspera Ad Astra, Diabolik, Invasion USA) that have been featured on Mystery Science Theater 3000, and there are many, many more films it featured that could have an article in the future. Should a category for one or both be added? --VladVladson (talk) 00:21, 19 January 2021 (EST)

National Film Registry. --Greg-Z (talk) 01:22, 19 January 2021 (EST)

Discord

I've made one. Feel free to float any suggestions/improvements by me; if you're a moderator here, let me know on my talk page and I'll set you up as one there (should you so desire). Rules aren't that much of an issue; generally speaking, if it wouldn't fly here, it won't fly there.

So, if you so desire, hop on in.

Lemme know what you guys think - like I said, I'm open to suggestions. Pyr0m4n14c (talk) 16:42, 21 January 2021 (EST)

To Catch A Predator page

Would anyone be opposed to a page for To Catch A Predator with Chris Hansen? Strange idea but the show did feature a lot of firearms, mostly used by police, but also in the cars of some predators. (Theakker3 (talk) 20:55, 24 January 2021 (EST))

To-Catch-a-Predator-300x300.jpg
Dtl predator scariest 070306.nbcnews-fp-1200-630.jpg
TCAP shotgun.jpg
Before we begin, why don't you have a seat right over there? But, anyway, there's a rule against pages for documentaries on this site, but we'll have to see if an admin is okay on allowing a TCAP page.
On another note, I do remember trying to identify the guns used on this show. The police mostly carried full-sized Glocks, one predator had a compact Glock of some sort found in his car, another one had what looks like a Mossberg 500 found in his car, a picture of which you included here. And then there was that guy who had several guns in his car (also seen here). I think it would be a cool page to have, but again, up to the admins. --PyramidHead (talk) 21:30, 24 January 2021 (EST)
Docs and reality-type shows and the like are unilaterally disallowed as far as I'm aware. StanTheMan (talk) 21:47, 24 January 2021 (EST)
Would you guys be willing to consider this one? (Theakker3 (talk) 15:17, 28 January 2021 (EST))
No, this would not be eligible. --Funkychinaman (talk) 20:23, 29 January 2021 (EST)

Grandpa Simpson's gun

I know we don't do pages for cartoons but I was watching The Simpsons, 'Who Shot Mr. Burns? Part 1' and there is a scene that depicts a fairly detailed revolver (as far as Simpsons animation goes) that looks like it might have been copied from an actual gun. While Bart helps Grandpa unpack, he opens a cigar box that contains an old revolver that Grandpa refers to as his "old Smith and Wesson". Does this resemble any Smith & Wesson model? (Theakker3 (talk) 01:28, 3 February 2021 (EST))

Bart finds Grandpa's "old Smith & Wesson".
"If you're going to play with it, be careful, because it's loaded."
Inspired by Remington 1875. --Greg-Z (talk) 02:19, 3 February 2021 (EST)
Remington 1875 - .45 Long Colt.

Weapons Handling

Are notes regarding the way actors and extras are handling their weapons welcome on certain images? I have noticed a lot of WWII movies where the actors incorrectly hold or move with their weapons like they are a modern-day soldier securing a room with an M4. Soldiers were not trained to move that way during WWII. Without shinning too much light on it, is it ok to point this out in certain images where it is very noticeable? (Theakker3 (talk) 22:19, 9 February 2021 (EST))

Captain Glover (Sam Worthington) in Hacksaw Ridge with his M1 Carbine. He holds it in the low-ready stance, which was not practiced during WWII.
I made a note on 1917 about trigger discipline in WWI, so I think it's worth mentioning; just don't come off as overly critical though. This image from HBO's Chernobyl portrays a similar issue as these Soviet guards should have held their rifles muzzle-up, not down.
ChernobylAK1.jpg
I think though that actors are instructed to use modern techniques for safety reasons on set, and that probably takes precedence over historical accuracy.--AgentGumby (talk) 23:40, 9 February 2021 (EST)
Interesting. On that note, when did trigger discipline become a thing? (Theakker3 (talk) 01:31, 10 February 2021 (EST))
I think that the bigger reason for modern techniques is the fact that the military consultants training the actors wiil themselves have been trained in modern techniques, so that is how they train others. There aren't too many WWII veterens curently in the military consulting game that can share their period correct training. I imagine that there is a slight safety element to the trigger discipline thing on set, but to be frank actors are not to be trusted so if there is a situation that relies on their trigger discipline for the safety of the cast and crew you are asking for trouble. As for when trigger discipline started to really become a thing, I think you could point to the mid 70s when Jeff Cooper started to teach his modern technique with the four rules of safety. I think that it still took a decade to make its way firmly into standard military practice though. --commando552 (talk) 11:34, 10 February 2021 (EST)

Can't ID the taser used

Right here in this page. Having trouble. Ominae (talk) 07:12, 11 February 2021 (EST)

X26P I think. --commando552 (talk) 15:50, 11 February 2021 (EST)
Doesn't look as big as an X2/X3 from the front. I concur it is more like a X26P. StanTheMan (talk) 23:05, 11 February 2021 (EST)

pistol ID

it is never unholstered, so i can't get any better image
TheExplodingBarrel (talk) 14:51, 12 February 2021 (EST)

anyone? TheExplodingBarrel (talk) 17:26, 18 March 2021 (EDT)

I think it is too vague and under-detailed for a positive ID, wouldn't lose any sleep over it.--AgentGumby (talk) 19:47, 18 March 2021 (EDT)
Stechkin? --Slon95 (talk) 20:20, 18 March 2021 (EDT)

M1 bayonets wrongly identified?

Hey folks.

Posting the stuff here (M7) and here (WWII M1 Bayonet). Not sure if they're IDed right. Ominae (talk) 07:50, 13 February 2021 (EST)

For the proper identification of bayonets, I recommend worldbayonets.com, a good reference source. Hope it would be useful. --Greg-Z (talk) 05:21, 19 March 2021 (EDT)

Opinion on something

Sorry I have to keep it short as I need to sleep now. I noted that Pustelga7 gives actor credits for characters from shows (at least) in an IMFDB page who doesn’t use a gun at all. I’m of the opinion that this is not needed and I made such edits in the Falcon and Winter Soldier page. I’m happy to be proven wrong though. Ominae (talk) 11:58, 20 March 2021 (EDT)

Why not give such credits? Of course, red links are unnecessary until there is a possibility that the page for an actor can be created, but mentioning the actors isn't a bad thing. I think so. --Greg-Z (talk) 12:21, 20 March 2021 (EDT)
Yes, hello again. I will immediately outline my point of view: I think it would be more correct if we indicate all the actors, regardless of their role and importance. However, there should not be a separate page for such actors. I always try to identify the actor if he is known. You can see that on the Fear the Walking Dead and partially WandaVision pages. Pustelga7 (talk) 12:26, 20 March 2021 (EDT)
Yeah, crediting the relevant actors is totally fine (it's been commonly done anyway), there is absolutely no reason to remove them. Just leave them without hyperlinks if they haven't held a gun yet. --Ultimate94ninja (talk) 12:54, 20 March 2021 (EDT)
I guess if the mods say so, even if I haven’t seen that done in other pages. Not that it’ll change how I write stuff here. Ominae (talk) 20:49, 20 March 2021 (EDT)

An uncommon Thompson front sight

A Thompson M1928A1 with hooded (!) front sight is seen in Soldier of Fortune (1955).

The hooded front sight of a Thompson is seen.

I couldn't find anything like it. Can anyone tell me if this is some kind of serial modification or something homemade? The movie was mostly filmed in Hong Kong, if this could help. Thanks! --Greg-Z (talk) 14:12, 20 March 2021 (EDT)

Hong Kong? Weren't copies produced in large quantity in China a bit before that? Might not be an "authentic" American made example. A slight change in sight style is nothing compared to the other oddities (pistols with bayonet lugs) that came out of China in that era. --VladVladson (talk) 19:52, 24 March 2021 (EDT)
Possibly. I couldn't find any image of Chinese Thompson with such sights. All variants that are seen in both reference books and in internet are accurate copies of M1921/M1928 with only markings that reveal the manufacturer, or the 7.62mm convertion that has a distinct curved magazine. The screen gun, as it seems to me, has the front sight taken from MP40. So it's most likely a single piece rather than some serial version. Just my opinion. --Greg-Z (talk) 07:02, 25 March 2021 (EDT)

Update on nuked images

Just wanna holler it out there. Ominae (talk) 10:54, 24 March 2021 (EDT)

There is a time to throw away stones to delete nuked images. But nobody knows when this time will come. Wait and hope. --Greg-Z (talk) 07:07, 25 March 2021 (EDT)

"Prototype" category?

We've got a lot prototypes that never entered mass production (or did yet have a prototype design appear everywhere) with a large number of appearances, some to the point they've made more media appearances than there were units produced. How about a category? Alternatively title could be something like "No Mass Production", which would include things like China Lake Launcher and Walther WA 2000 (which were past prototype, but had very limited runs) and make Fictional Firearm into a subcategory of that (since almost all of them are physical props made in limited number, many functional enough to fire blanks). --VladVladson (talk) 19:52, 24 March 2021 (EDT)

Eh, I could see that becoming a bit of a problem - "No Mass Production" would be pretty arbitrary, since you'd have to define some exact number as "mass production", and even "prototype" is a bit of a gray area (since some prototypes saw actual combat use in field trials (or, in some cases like the French Resistance and some last-ditch Imperial Japanese efforts, simply saw use because guns of any sort were needed), with some prototypes being produced in larger numbers than some "production" guns for trials. Not to mention that we'd wind up including half of the gun articles on the site anyway, since there are many instances where a prototype version of a full-production gun gets an appearance - take, for example, the video game appearances of the Magpul Masada, or the MPX Copperhead prototype in JW3. It's a neat idea, but would be worth neither the effort nor the semantical debates in practice. Pyr0m4n14c (talk) 20:46, 24 March 2021 (EDT)
What's the point of such category? Categories for guns by type are useful in purpose of identification, but hardly anybody would specially search for prototypes. --Greg-Z (talk) 07:09, 25 March 2021 (EDT)

Actor page having video game credits

For reference, it's in the Takeshi Kitano page as an example since he's been mocapped/voiced by the guy in Yakuza 6. Not sure if it's okay to leave by itself. This kind of acting credit is kinda limited in the sense that it's a mixed bag. Other instances that I can think of is Quantum Break where the actors are mocapped and voiced by the same person. Ominae (talk) 23:23, 29 March 2021 (EDT)

The text of the Actor Title template is the following: "Actor can be seen using the following weapons in the following films (and television series)". So strictly speaking, the voicing of VGs or animations doesn't fall within the meaning of the actor's page. However, the case where the actor works for motion capture is possibly suitable for inclusion. This is my personal opinion, not an interpretation of the rules. --Greg-Z (talk) 13:23, 31 March 2021 (EDT)
I think 'XXXX can be seen ' is pretty unambiguous - If the actor him/herself is actually seen handling a gun, it counts. If not, then it don't. I don't think we need to nor should start expanding actor page credits beyond anything they don't visually portray. StanTheMan (talk) 21:08, 31 March 2021 (EDT)
On this subject, I previously included Andrew Bicknell's role in Agent Under Fire on his page since he already had a page at the time and he was on (or at least model for) the cover. "Can be seen" gets a bit odd with characters that are explicitly and officially modeled after a real person as well as voiced by them. If we're going to talk about how it should be, I'd propose (emphasis) making it so it's fine to include mocap, (official) face sculpt model, and maybe voice acting if an actor already has a page for fully live action roles, but not to create a new page if the actor doesn't have one already. The issue with that would be how to credit video game characters that can wind up using all kinds of different guns, but something like "Various" would be sufficient. --VladVladson (talk) 21:11, 31 March 2021 (EDT)
I can agree with all but the last one. A distinct physical/aesthetic likeness is one thing, but voice-only credits don't merit inclusion, plain and simple. Existing page or no. Again, the actor him- or her-self needs to actually be seen with a firearm. I'm not seeing where this is open for interpretation, frankly. StanTheMan (talk) 21:17, 31 March 2021 (EDT)
So you'd be okay with it if the character uses the actor's likeness, such as the cases of Sam Witwer in Days Gone and Jim Pirri in Days Gone and Red Dead Redemption II? Spartan198 (talk) 21:53, 31 March 2021 (EDT)
And as for the matter of listing which guns are used by them, I suggest we list any default ones (such as those seen wielded by them in cutscenes) first, then for the rest just use "Player's choice" like I've seen some other wikis do. Spartan198 (talk) 22:11, 31 March 2021 (EDT)
I recall that mocaps have been disallowed on actors/actresses pages (regarding video games and 3D animated films). And it makes sense, since technically the actors didn't hold the actual guns; it honestly doesn't matter whether their likeness and/or voice were used or not. That said, actor pages can have a video game entry if the game features live-action cutscenes with the actor physically holding a real weapon (such as in Need for Speed: Undercover). --Ultimate94ninja (talk) 22:21, 31 March 2021 (EDT)

Yes, mo-cap and voicework is not eligible, but FMV is. --Funkychinaman (talk) 01:30, 1 April 2021 (EDT)

Guess I can make the edit on Takeshi Kitano's page. Ominae (talk) 07:59, 1 April 2021 (EDT)

Unknown Pistol from FaWS

I decided to make a discussion here as well. We have an unknown pistol that no one can identify yet. There are some nice screenshots showing all the details clearly, but that doesn't help. And yes, this is not HK pistol (such as P30, HK45 or VP9). If anyone has ideas, please write. Additionally, if I do manage to attract attention, I will take a moment to ask more about this rifle.

FWS01E03 01.jpg
FaWS S1E03 48.jpg
FaWSS1 09.jpg

Pustelga7 (talk) 08:56, 4 April 2021 (EDT)

I think the pistol is a Arex Delta, and the rifle is a SIG SG 556 DMR with a French AC58 rifle grenade that is used with the FAMAS/HK416F.--AgentGumby (talk) 09:13, 4 April 2021 (EDT)
Actually, the pistol in the second image is a CZ P-10C, I haven't seen the show but I assume it is a different scene from the first.--AgentGumby (talk) 09:21, 4 April 2021 (EDT)
Oh yes, you are right. The second screen is really CZ. This means that character used two pistols during the gunfight. I checked the AREX pistol and I think it doesn't look like it. Yes, there are some similar parts, but these are different pistols. Now for the rifle. I think you are right and this is a SIG, but modified, since the forend and barrel are very different from the basic version. Many many thanks for the help. Pustelga7 (talk) 09:54, 4 April 2021 (EDT)
The rifle is just the 556 DMR with a different railed handguard, like this one. The barrel just looks like it was digitally manipulated for the rifle grenade.--AgentGumby (talk) 10:15, 4 April 2021 (EDT)
Okay, that makes sense. Thanks again. Pustelga7 (talk) 10:23, 4 April 2021 (EDT)


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