Talk:Supreme Sanction

MP5Ks

I think the MP5K is just an SP89 with a vertical foregrip. I don't see a paddle release, and the way Michael Madsen is reloading it, it doesn't appear to have one. --Funkychinaman (talk) 00:05, 14 February 2016 (EST)

I'll grant he does look like he's using the button release in that shot, but that said those guns clearly have the molded polymer S-E-F lowers. StanTheMan (talk) 01:40, 14 February 2016 (EST)

Thanks, I fixed it. I also need help with compact M16s. Can you say anything about them? Greg-Z (talk) 01:56, 14 February 2016 (EST)

^ I think it's still questionable on those H&Ks. Can't explain the lack of the paddles, but again, the guns quite clearly have the proper molded SEF lower receiver-style, not the metal lowers of the SP89. Some more shots might help if they can be got. StanTheMan (talk) 02:16, 14 February 2016 (EST)

More images of supposed MP5Ks. Greg-Z (talk) 02:37, 14 February 2016 (EST)

An operative, running with SP89 (?), is shot.

An operative with MP5K.

Holman with MP5K.

An operative with MP5K.

Dalton takes the gun from operative.

Dalton fires, holding the SMG "gangsta-style".

Hmm.. indeed I'm not seeing any paddle releases - but those are SEF lowers/trigger packs though. Strange. I suppose the paddles could have been removed, though I can't fathom why that'd be done, myself. Bah. StanTheMan (talk) 13:52, 14 February 2016 (EST)

Maybe SEF trigger packs were added when SP89s were converted for full-auto while magazine release remained push-button? It seems to me more credible than replacing the paddle release on original MP5Ks. Greg-Z (talk) 14:14, 14 February 2016 (EST)

That's certainly possible - and perhaps even more likely, I'd agree. However that too is atypical and rather strange. Still I can see it, though. Perhaps the armorer knew there'd be good closeups of the SMGs and decided to pay closer attention to detail there, in which case kudos to him (or not, for trying to fool us, heh). StanTheMan (talk) 14:54, 14 February 2016 (EST)

The armorer of this movie is Mike Tristano, here is the list of movies where he contributed. Maybe we should go through his other movies of late 1990s and see if there are similar MP5Ks. Greg-Z (talk) 15:09, 14 February 2016 (EST)

Without going into massive detail about the subject, it is easier to give an SP89 a polymer trigger group than to give it a paddle release, so it is likely that these are partial conversions. The conversion that they did to HK rifles and SMGs to make them US legal involved adding a "shelf" coming off of the receiver at the front of the trigger pack in the place of the push pin meaning that a standard SEF pack cannot be fitted. However, there is a procedure known as clipping and pinning whereby and trigger pack is modified and a cosmetic push pin is added allowing it to fit on a US frame and look mostly like and original German gun. This is relatively simple, adding a paddle magazine release isn't so this is a common point at which most conversions stop. --commando552 (talk) 18:19, 14 February 2016 (EST)

Rifles

Pretty sure the sniper rifle is a Remington 700PSS. The 'M16 Carbine' looks to be one in the this series; A 65x or possibly a 723 - without more details tough to narrow it down further. I'd say the first Un-ID'd shorty AR would be a Colt 733 'Commando' (see previous link) but the barrel and handguard look off - In any event I don't believe the gun is the same as the LaFrance from Nikita, given that AR had an even shorter barrel and forend and that was filmed in France, which this almost certainly isn't. The second shorty AR looks like an Olympic Arms K23B, but not quite, again forend is off (plus I don't believe those are OA markings on the receiver). StanTheMan (talk) 02:16, 14 February 2016 (EST)

Thanks, I'll correct the sniper rifle. About M16s: I agree about the one with long barrel; and I think that you are right that LaFrance is a wrong guess about the first subcompact AR. The second one have a clear Bushmaster logo but I cannot find any Bushmaster produced AR with such short barrel. Possibly some aftermarket modification? Greg-Z (talk) 02:37, 14 February 2016 (EST)

I think that the "653" actually has a 16" barrel indicating that is is one of the civilian models. Based on the era of this film I would guess a Sporter or Sporter II Carbine would be most likely, but without seeing it in more detail (chiefly if it has an FA or not) it is impossible to tell. --commando552 (talk) 18:27, 14 February 2016 (EST)

Thanks! There isn't any better image of this gun, it is seen very briefly and this is the best screenshot. Greg-Z (talk) 08:25, 15 February 2016 (EST)