Others (entries pending)
Note no iron sights or scope
Unknown Double-Barrel Shotgun
In the episode "Crossroads", Stanley has what appears to be some kind of double-barrel shotgun when he confronts the Ravenwood mercenaries. Due to the darkness and long view, identification is next to impossible.
How in the world would a civilian in the US manage to get their hands on one of these things? I mean, to my knowledge there's no semi-auto civvy version and no US governmental or law enforcement agencies use it. The SCAR is similarly out of place but at least plausible... Is it perhaps safe to assume that both of the above guns, like the HK416 in the hands of the US Marine NCO, is a mistake on the armorer's part? Spartan198 08:44, 3 July 2009 (UTC)
- I really can't tell if that's an L85A1 or not. But yes, the mistake was probably made by the propmaster or one of their assistants. Stanley is seen loading a G36C in that same episode, which is presumed to have been another weapon taken from the Marines, and that, too, would be a mistake. -MT2008 15:05, 3 July 2009 (UTC)
- I blew up the image when first looking at it, thinking perhaps it was an AR with a triangular handguard (e.g., an M16A1 or something thereof), but by the lack of a front sight post and the position and height of what appears to be a SUSAT scope on the receiver (and, you know, the lack of a magazine housing in front of the user's right arm and hand, of course) convinces me that it's an L85. Spartan198
- It is possible for it to have been an L85. If I remember correctly in the series Dark Angel the eugenics commandos were armed with L85s with iron sights. In particular I remember Amy Dumas, who was the wrestler "Lita" for the WWE loosing off a few rounds but, in semi-auto only (seen in the second season/series finale "Freak Nation") . Additionally the weapon was seen in Battlestar Galactica with, again, iron sights. Charon68
- I was speaking in story context, not armorer context. I'm saying it doesn't seem plausible for some random civvy in a nearby rural town to have one. Spartan198
- Most likely not possible for some random civilian in the middle of no where America to get himself an L85. Unless the British sent troops in and some of them got killed and this was a pick up gun. I can understand the SCAR in the hands of the Mercenaries Ravenwood because they work directly with the new government. Excalibur01 05:37, 6 July 2010 (UTC)
HK416 is not HK416
Look toward the end of the fore-grip just ahead of the PEQ-2, there's part of an A-frame front sight barely visible. That's not an HK416, it's an M4. At least in this shot it is, which would explain it having a 14-inch barrel in a wide shot as the Marines first arrive in town. Apparently we've got ourselves a major continuity error. Spartan198 15:57, 27 August 2009 (UTC)
- Yes, definitely a major continuity error. The stand-off scene seems to be the only one with an HK416. All other scenes of the NCO seem to show him with an M4. But someone with the DVD will need to double check, because as I was pausing and rewinding to get good angles of the weapon for confirmation, I accidentally hit the wrong damn button on my remote and changed the channel, resetting the DVR so that I couldn't rewind back to where I was in the episode (I was about 15 minutes or so behind the broadcast due to excessive rewinding). Spartan198 16:18, 27 August 2009 (UTC)
I was thinking when people keep talking about the Marines would not be issued with the HK416, they are not real Marines so it could be that they took the weapons off of some other unit and just pretended to be Marines as Spec Ops soldiers would seem strange to locals coming in and helping to rebuild. Just my thoughts anyway. --cool-breeze 14:30, 13 January 2011 (UTC)
- Have you ever seen this episode of the show? They were definitely pretending to be Marines, but they definitely weren't SOF. At any rate, your thoughts would be incorrect as I've already pointed out that it's a continuity error due to the fact that the stand off scene is the only one with the HK416; in the scenes around it, that "Marine" has an M4. Spartan198 19:15, 19 March 2011 (CDT)
I think you misunderstood what I meant. The government could have kitted out Special Forces soldiers as Marines to get around the law against using Army on US soil. So that's what I meant. I have no doubt that all the "Marines" thought that they were Marines, hence they pretended to be Marines, and they had Marine equipment (the Tank says USMC on it). But it is most likely a continuity issue, just a bit strange that they would only be able to get a hold of a HK416 over an M4 which I assume there are tons of in Hollywood armouries compared to HK416s. --cool-breeze 18:35, 22 March 2011 (CDT)
- This episode doesn't have any SOF "kitted out as" Marines, they were all civvies pretending. Even the 416-toting "Gunny" said he was "a PE teacher who saw too many movies". Where you got this idea of SOF impersonating Marines is beyond me as nothing like that happened in this show. And considering that the whole country had gone to hell with every form of official law enforcement pretty much non-existent at the time, the only way to regain order would be to declare martial law and deploy US military personnel as peacekeepers. Posse Comitatus sure as hell didn't prevent the ASA from bombing the male population of New Bern back to the Stone Age, that's for sure. Spartan198 22:58, 26 June 2011 (CDT)
I don't know where this attitude is coming from but if you read what I put instead of jumping on it I meant the Marines who these people took all their stuff off of could have been SOF kitted out as Marines. Then when the revolt happened and these guys took all of their gear they wouldn't have known that the people they took it off of were SOF impersonating Marines in order to get around Posse Comitatus. And this is before the ASA existed. And isn't it illegal to deploy US Military personnel apart from Marines and the National Guard on their own soil? So what I am saying is all of the "Marines" these guys stole the guns, clothing and the tank from could have been SOF that had been dressed up as Marines in order to help police the camp. NOT the PE teacher who saw any movies. --cool-breeze 05:22, 27 June 2011 (CDT)
- Okay, firstly, I don't have an attitude, I was getting frustrated because this SOF posing as Marines issue came right out of the blue and I had no clue how it was relevant here. Second, you didn't say anything about the refugee camp, so how was I supposed to know that's what you were talking about? SOF posing as Marines won't get around Posse Comitatus because SOF are subject to it just as any regular US military personnel are. The ASA existed at least as far back as Heather's (That was her name, wasn't it? The female lead opposite Ashley) escape from New Bern, because it was ASA troops that found her and Camp Liberty was an ASA base camp by the the flag she saw flying above it and the flag on this Marine's shoulder --
We really don't know exactly when the ASA itself was officially formed, but the news board at the trading post did name Cheyenne, Wyoming, as the site of one of the regional governments and that Tomarchio was in charge there (and this was before the fake Marines showed up). While it may not have been official, it did exist in some capacity. Getting back to the refugee camp issue, having SOF there makes no sense because those SOF would be better utilized in hunting down the terrorists responsible for the attacks. The military is stretched thin even in reality and in Jericho it's implied to be stretched even thinner. SOF wouldn't be pulled off a terrorist hunt to man a refugee camp. And in most situations, using military personnel in a domestic law enforcement capacity is illegal, but with a declaration of martial law, State of Emergency (as happened in New Orleans following Katrina, where some 15,000 federal and NG troops and even Blackwater contractors patrolled the streets), or other extreme case, it can be done. I'd definitely call the nuclear annihilation of 27 American cities, decapitation of the federal government, and the total collapse of every domestic law enforcement agency in the country a State of Emergency... Spartan198 17:20, 27 June 2011 (CDT)
The ASA didn't actually get it's name until season 2. At the time it would have been just Cheyanne until they grouped a load of states together. And you weren't getting frustrated, you immediately jumped down my throat for mentioning SOF units without even thinking about what I meant. It was implied that I meant at the refugee camp, did you ask what I meant though? No, you just kept on with this high and mighty attitude. And then you have the cheek to say to me "Have you seen an episode of this show?" when you can't even remember the names of the characters. It was Heather by the way. And the 'Blackwater' in the show is called 'Ravenwood'. Since when do SOF units conduct investigations into terrorist attacks? If I remember correctly it's the FBI who would conduct an investigation, or what's left of them. I think a terrorist hunt would be the least of the concerns as they would have to regain order by quelling disorder at the refugee camps. I'm pretty sure that most military assets would be committed to holding up order at those camps. --cool-breeze 18:28, 27 June 2011 (CDT)
- Yes, the ASA got its name in season 2 (which would explain the colonel at Camp Liberty telling Heather he was with the United States government), but while unnamed it did in a technical sense exist in the form of the Cheyenne government. I didn't have any freaking attitude, but I'm beginning to get extremely pissed off by you telling me I do have one. I was not jumping down your throat or acting "high and mighty" about anything, I didn't know you were talking about the damned refugee camp because it didn't come up in the discussion until just now. The reason I didn't ask if you were talking about the refugee camp was because I was too busy trying to figure out how you came up with this "SOF posing as Marines" bit. "Can't even remember the names of characters"? I'm sorry my recollection of a show that gets shown in morning marathons on one channel every three or four months in my area (in fact, I don't think they've shown it since February) is a little bit vague, and on top of that it was one character. I know what the PSC in Jericho is called, I was talking about in reality, when Blackwater was brought in post-Katrina to help maintain order, in response to your mention of it being illegal to use US military personnel in a domestic law enforcement role. And if SOF don't hunt terrorists, what are they doing prowling the mountains on Afghanistan looking for them? Why was it DEVGRU that took bin Laden down instead of FBI HRT?
- But at any rate, all of that is irrelevant. The fake Gunny has the 416 in one scene. In all others around it, he has an M4. No SOF posing as Marines here, at the refugee camp, or anywhere else. Just a bunch of refugees who came up with an idea that would convince towns to give them food, water, and fuel, combined with one big (albeit odd) continuity error. Spartan198 20:48, 28 June 2011 (CDT)
Because Afghanistan isn't US soil. It wasn't SOF conducting the investigation into the 9/11 bombings. I'm fed up of this argument and you're getting too tetchy about me saying you have an attitude, which from my perspective you do as you never once asked about what I meant you just jumped down my throat accusing me of never seeing the show. And if you notice I did mention that it was most likely a strange continuity error as a HK416 would be a lot rarer in a Hollywood armourers than an M4. It's possible that the HK416 used was one of the ones used in The Unit as they most likely used the same armourers because they are both made by CBS. --cool-breeze 08:56, 29 June 2011 (CDT)
- I didn't then and don't now have any attitude, nor was I jumping down your throat or acting "high and mighty" or anything else. I posted this section of the talk page regarding a continuity error, then you popped in and started talking, out of the blue, about SOF posing as Marines. Nothing of the sort occurred in the show. Please tell me where you got this from? Spartan198 20:34, 31 December 2011 (CST)
- In other news, fakey Abrams back there with single-pin treads is a British Chieftain. Evil Tim 09:04, 29 June 2011 (CDT)
- Isn't that already pointed out on the main page somewhere? Spartan198 20:34, 31 December 2011 (CST)
- Who do you think added it? :D Evil Tim 05:23, 1 January 2012 (CST)
- Seemed like it had been there for quite a while, though. I'd known that was a Chieftain for some time. Spartan198 02:39, 2 January 2012 (CST)
In the Season 1 episode "Coalition of the Willing" Hawkings fires what appears to be a semi-automatic version of the AKM and the foley artist sound some AUTOMATIC weapons sounds on the firing. It's usually a commonality in movies and TV shows to place FULL-AUTO sounds on semi-automatic assault rifles.
Plus in that scene, when Hawkings stop firing his AKM and shouted "Where the hell is Jonah?!" I saw the bolt/charging handle stuck in mid-fire (presumably an unknown jam). Just my observation. --Dangerman 1973 05:00, 26 November 2009 (UTC)
Last M4 screencap (plot spoiler warning)
Definitely Marines rather than Soldiers due to the MARPAT uniforms, but I don't believe they're AS. I haven't seen the show in a while, but I vaguely remember that being the last time the bomb was seen in it. That would mean that it's after Jake and Hawkins landed in Texas and turned the device over to the government there, which would make those men Republic of Texas Marines.
But since I'm vague on this, I only altered the caption to read "AS Marines" rather than "AS soldiers". Spartan198 19:26, 19 March 2011 (CDT)
Just rewatched the episode in question "Sedition" and I think the guys wearing MARPAT were not AS Marines but probably some sort of special ops troopers since, among other things, they lacked helmet covers for their K-Pots. Either that or they were Jennings & Rall (you have to have seen the show) security troops.
As a side topic the only thing about this show that kind of bugged me is...where did the people from New Bern get all the damn firepower from? The mortars are explained (they made them themselves) but the small arms? While I could see civilian AKs, AR-15s, and M1As where did the M2 .50 and the M-60s come from never mine the ammunition to allow sustained fire? --Charon68 20:41, 19 March 2011 (CDT)
They could have traded for them. There was the Black Jack Fairground which seemed to have a lot of things. I agree on the ammunition as well. Bit strange that they had so much ammunition, especially for an M60 as well. --cool-breeze 18:39, 22 March 2011 (CDT)
Thermold plastic magazines
A little nitpicking I know but I recently saw this pic:
The Marine in the middle has an M4 which clearly has a Thermold like mag loaded in his weapon. --Charon68 18:14, 5 May 2011 (CDT)
- No, that's a PMAG. Spartan198 22:25, 26 June 2011 (CDT)
Camo shotgun identification
From what I can tell the shotgun with the camouflage pattern paint job is a Mossberg 500 (mostly due to the unlikelyhood of movie armorers spending the money to acquire a Mossberg 535 chambered for the 3.5" round) due to the barrel retaining screw, which doesn't match the one on the model 835.
However I am completely unable to match the camo pattern to any of the dozen or more variations presented by the Mossberg company. Mossy Oak, Realtree, Duck Blind, HD Green Camo, Hardwoods, etc. none of them match. I'm assuming it was a customized, individual paint job for this individual shotgun, further suggested by the fact that the bolt looks to be painted as well rather than left bare.
Stanley Richmond Shotgun
I just watched the series again and noticed the stanley and his sister use a winchester 1912 shotgun i believe.