User talk:MoviePropMaster2008 (Archive)

Most of my uploaded firearms pics were photographed by me and thus offered for use by IMFDB with my permission.

BTW: Please IDENTIFY yourself when you leave a message. I shouldn't have to sleuth your identity through the Wiki/History page to figure out who asked what. ;) Thanks.

What do you think...

...of the article on the Colt Flare Launcher? -MT2008

Trust me, I'm not offended. I respect and share your commitment to ensuring accuracy on this site, especially since you're obviously far more qualified to talk about guns in film (and guns in general) than I will ever be. -MT2008

Oh, yes, and one other request...

I have another request, this one a bit more unusual. I recently did a page for 2 Fast 2 Furious, which features a two-tone SIG P226 of West German manufacture that has a stainless frame and a regular black slide and barrel. It looks like the armorer just combined two existing guns to make it (since the two-tone P226s usually have black frame and stainless slide), and I'd love to have a picture of something identical for my page. So if you ever get out those two P226s that you photographed for IMFDB back in June, do you mind combining this:

..and this...

...to make this?

...and then taking a picture of it for me? Also, if you put the slide and barrel from the stainless P226 on the frame of the black P226, you'd have a gun identical to the one from Face/Off which we could use for that page.

Now THAT is news to me. I'm really surprised...finishes really make the fit of the parts THAT difficult? Wow. I don't think the gun above is a factory job because the two-tone P226s that SIG has sold are always black frame and stainless slide, not the other way around. Do you by chance know who supplied the weapons for 2 Fast 2 Furious?

Thanks for the info, as always.

Re: Back for a bit

I do think you're right and that there are some SKS rifles in Platoon (which may or may not be Chinese Type 56 copies, for all I know). I own that movie on DVD, so as soon as I get back to my place, I'm gonna have to pop it in my laptop and watch again to be sure. Also, thanks for backing me up on the CAR-15 variants in the film - I was pretty sure they were 653s, and I know that particular model was exported in large numbers to U.S. allies during the 1970s (if you ever check out any Arab-Israeli war photos from the news, even today, you'll see many IDF personnel using them).

I was also suspicious of the "MAC-9" page, because I have never heard of that variant. On the other hand, I had no idea that the 9mm variant of the MAC-10 was called the "MAC-10/9"; I've usually just heard it referred to as a MAC-10. I figure "MAC-9" was just somebody butchering the spelling of "M11/9", which has appeared in lots of movies (I made the entry for that gun under the MAC-10 page myself, though someone else put down - inaccurately - that it was used in Blue Streak).

Sorry to hear Josh Brolin broke a gun...indeed, how DO you bend a trigger guard? Then again, he's had some issues with the law lately, so maybe it's not too surprising. What film is he working on that required him to carry a Police Chief Special, anyway? Some period piece, I take it? I don't know how frustrating it is to be an armorer, but I can imagine...I mean, if you've rented out dozens of guns to one production, doesn't that make you lose your nerve to think how much those guns must be getting tossed around, even with armorers on-set to supervise their use? Also, remember when you sent me that picture of guns to ID from your vault? How many did I get right?

That's cool if you can get a picture of a Chinese Tokarev. Later. -MT2008

Tokarev

MP2008,

Nice to see you're back on the site! Hope you've seen some of GunMaster45's recent work (especially on Heartbreak Ridge and Platoon.

Anyway, I'm curious...do you by chance have a Chinese Type 54 copy of a Tokarev in your company's inventory? I ask only because I've seen those in quite a few movies, and I figure we should have a picture of one for this site. Also, I thought that only Chinese Tokarevs have the frame-mounted safety? I have little experience with them, but I thought I remembered reading that...please educate me if I'm wrong!

Re: A pic and an update

Good lord, is that what Heaven on Earth looks like? I can see (from left to right), an AR with a triangular forearm (M16A1 or AR15 SP1, I can't tell, but the selector appears to be on semi!), an FN MAG, an MP5A2 with slim forearm, a shorty AR with a 10" barrel, an AKM variant, an FN Minimi, a G36E, two AR carbines with what appear to be 14.5"+ barrels, what I believe to be an MG3 and an MG42, and then a PK or PKM. Behind the MG3, I see the barrel shroud of what might be an M1919, but I can't tell for sure. All I know is that I seriously hope my own safe looks like that...some day (as it stands, my GSA-imported Chinese AK is the only "evil"-looking gun I own).

As far as changing the pages...totally fine. I never intended to leave our conversations on there permanently...only long enough to make sure that the guns were properly identified. Of course, I'm quickly learning that you're usually right!

Sorry you've got so many guns to clean...I've heard stories about the way that blanks wear guns in comparison to live rounds, so I know how busy you must be! As far as replacement parts go, please replace that slim forearm on the MP5 (which I see has a tag). I've always found those slim forearms on ANY H&K long gun to be annoying because I can't get a comfortable grip on them; they're just way too narrow (and this is coming from a guy with pretty small hands!) I imagine anyone who has to fire hundreds of rounds out of that gun (until the director gets a satisfying take of an action scene) would also start to hate it.

Haha...thanks for the vault picture. Talk to you later. -MT2008

Long-barreled AK under-folder

Here is the gun from The X-Files I mentioned to you. Found these on a fan site for the show. They're not great quality, but you can see it pretty well:

File:X-files-Type84-4.jpg

File:X-files-Type84-2.jpg

File:X-files-Type84.jpg

(This one is from a different episode)

It's clearly an under-folder, it has a long barrel, but it also has what appears to be a .223 mag. And it seems to have a hooded front sight in the first pic. Any idea what this might be? It's appeared in several episodes of the show from a couple of seasons, and I always thought it was a Type 84 under-folder fitted with the barrel from an RPK clone. -MT2008

Mike Sudrow is listed on IMDB as having worked on a few episodes of The X-Files. Since the show lasted so long (nine years), I imagine they probably had many, many different armorers depending on the season/filming location.

As far as Canadian armorers go, Al Vrkljan of Movie Armaments Group was on here a couple months ago. He corrected me on the Incredible Hulk page by telling me that, interestingly enough, Diemaco/Colt Canada won't sell its weapons to film armorers in Canada! He also told me more about those mystery grenade launchers we were discussing earlier, plus he updated the page with more guns that I had missed. I really hope he comes back; he said he might be able to get some pictures of the launchers for us.

No worries on the Heat stuff, although I think you actually mean Gunmaster45, not me. As far as buying handguns go, I have yet to even try it in my home state (NC) because I live in Orange County and you have to get three "references" (people who are county residents) to apply for a purchase permit at the sheriff's dept. Sadly, Chapel Hill is full of overly-liberal people whom I wouldn't be comfortable asking to sign my permit application, so I've never bought a pistol here even though I'm of age - I've just inherited pistols from my grandfather. Ah, well, maybe if I wind up re-locating to Texas for this new job, I can finally buy that SIG P226 I've always wanted... -MT2008

Re:Re:Sahara

Thanks for going so far out of your way to get the photo of the Type 84 with the AKM-style sight...I realize it must have been a hassle! However, I wasn't saying they put an AKM sight on a Type 84; I simply thought the front sight itself indicated the gun was a Type 84 because my eyes suck and it looked hooded to me from that perspective.

As far as the source goes, I believe Crowntower Limited supplied the weapons that were used in Sahara. I say that based on a couple of deductions: Sascha Robey was one of the armorers who worked on Casino Royale as well as Sahara, Crowntower is listed in the credits of Casino Royale (but not Sahara) as the weapons supplier, and finally, if you look at our Casino Royale page, the AKs in that film top look identical to the one in Sahara that we were talking about. Perhaps this Sascha Robey rented the same guns for two films.

Re:Sahara

A lot of what you've said makes sense...BUT, there's still something bugging me about the third screenshot. Either my eyes really suck, or that is still a Norinco-style sight in that shot. HOWEVER, the first screenshot does, admittedly, show what appears to be a standard AKM-style front sight. Compare:

File:ComparisonSaharaAK.JPG

I'm also confused because I have seen Type 84s fitted with mags that LOOK like the Romak mags, even if they aren't, like the one in the picture I posted. Anyway, is it possible that they used two different weapons for this "hero" gun use, and one was a Romak (or whatever) and the other was a Type 84 re-styled to look more like the Romak?

BTW, I didn't correct that typo; Gunmaster45 did. -MT2008

Oh, yeah, and the screens are really cool. As far as people's sudden interest in ignored pages, I guess it has to do with the fact that once they see somebody's worked on it in the "Recent Changes" section, they glance at it, and then they're more likely to spot mistakes they didn't see before.

OK, you know what? My eyes do suck! I just stood way, way back from my monitor and squinted, and now I see that it's not a hooded Norinco sight; it's just the angle makes it appear circular. You are right; it can't be a Type 84, or anything that uses Type 84 parts. And I'm guessing that also means I could be wrong about the Casino Royale AKs, too.

It's kinda strange, though...I wouldn't have figured British armorers would use civilian AK variants that were essentially geared towards the U.S. firearms market.

I, Robot SMG

Excellent, I'm glad to see you found the scene in I, Robot where it shows a close-up of the SMG's receiver and the Spectre's safety is visible. I was beginning to think my memory had failed me and that I was wrong...but I remember seeing this movie in the theater, on the big screen, and seeing that exact same image in your screenshot. Immediately, I thought to myself, "Spectre M4!" Actually, only a few months before the movie came out, I was at a gun show where one of the dealers had the semi-auto carbine version on his table...probably how I recognized it so quickly!

BTW, I believe the trigger and pistol grip are one unit on the Spectre. It looks to me like the armorers who worked on I, Robot just removed it and added that PSG1-style grip, but never bothered to put on a replacement trigger guard. - MT2008

M70

Hi,

Do you think we should really have a separate page for the Zastava M70, instead of just putting it under the AK-47 page, as we did for the Type 56? - MT2008

I see your point. However, my personal criteria is that we should keep all conventional 7.62x39mm AK-type assault rifles on one page. Although the M70 series are by no means straightforward AK-47/AKM copies (due to the ladder sight and the mix of stamped receiver with traditional AK layout, like on the Type 56), they are still basically pretty conventional rifles, as opposed to say, the Norinco Type 86 or the Saiga and Vepr series. I feel it'd probably be better to keep the M70 on the AK-47 page, especially since I haven't seen any movies yet that feature weapons like the M76 or M77. This is, of course, sort of a gray area and one of the biggest problems with this site, IMO.

Also, I feel compelled to point out...there's an episode in Ultimate Force where "Russian" soldiers are actually seen using M70Bs and Type 56s, which is of course ridiculously inaccurate (the episode takes place in the present-day Chechen conflict).

RE: RE: Studio Weapons

You more than answered the question, thank you. I have seen some pictures of places that do the rentals and, frankly, privately list them as places I would most want to work. "No we don't have a .50 cal minigun on the shelves but I can check in the back." Once again thanks for the info and for the earlier compliments. Incidentally, I am working on a new one..."Farewell to the King" (1989)..should have it ready in a few days.

Do studios still keep their own "arsenals"? I was given the impression that most, if not all, firearms for movies were in the private sector.

RE: Images

No skin off of my nose what images you use mate. Fact of the matter is, when you boil it down, pretty much all the images we are using on here are not "legal". So which ones you use, from whatever site are ok with me. Frankly, as far as I go, I try to only use images which do not have another web site's watermark on them.

RE:

First of all, cheers for the update on the Type 84 picture. There's no hurry; I understand if it takes a while to get the appropriate mags (since obviously, a Type 84 doesn't look very different from a Type 56 without them).

Second, while I don't speak for everyone on here, I can say that I personally do not have any problem with you replacing pictures of guns on this site (even those that I uploaded) with any that you took. Nor do I see why anyone else would. The only reason I can imagine anyone getting offended would be if they went to the same effort you do to get the guns and photograph them on their own. But pretty much everyone else on here just uploads pictures they copied from other gun sites, in some cases airsoft web sites (like that picture we used to have of the SP89, which was just an airsoft MP5K fitted with an SP89 handguard from DenTrinity; terrible!). And it doesn't take much time or effort to copy and upload someone else's work.

Additionally, your gun photos are obviously of superior quality to anything else on here, and they're of guns that have actually appeared in movies (possibly the same movies as the pages they're on), so as far as I am concerned, there really isn't any reason why we can't replace any existing photos of guns with the ones you've taken. In fact, I would encourage you to not be so timid in the future when it comes to replacing photos. If you want an example of what I mean by this, take a look at the Armalite AR-18 page. Your AR-18 picture is way better than any of those on the page, so I don't see any reason why you can't just remove some of the others (maybe keep ONE of the other photos of the gun with the scope, and even that could be replaced if you took an equivalent picture).

One thing I will point out, though: I have sometimes used pictures on my pages that are from the web site of Rick Washburn's company Weapons Specialists, Inc. (http://www.weaponspecialists.com/index.php). They provided the guns for I Am Legend, so the page for that movie now features pictures of the guns used in the film that I copied and uploaded from them (including the tan-framed Mark 23). In cases like that, I'd prefer those particular photos stay up (you'll know them because I always provide links and info mentioning where they're from) because they feature the actual movie guns, and they're decent quality. Besides that, I don't have any problem with you replacing any and all photos of guns on this site with yours.

Chinese Type 56

First of all, I GREATLY appreciate the photo you took of one of the Goldeneye AKs for me. I didn't know you had access to any British armories?

However, I have one question: Do you think it's really appropriate to classify the Chinese Type 56 rifles with stamped receivers as "AK-47" and "AKS-47" clones, as opposed to AKM/AKMS derivatives? I realize that the Type 56s with stamped receivers lack just about all of the other features of the AKMs (including the muzzle break, ribbed receiver cover, rate reducer, grip rails, narrower front sight, etc.), but I've usually heard them described as AKM copies simply to distinguish them from the earlier milled-receiver versions. I know this is an over-simplification of sorts because the Type 56s aren't really orthodox AK-47s or AKMs (they're more like a weird hybrid version), but I figured it would be more appropriate.

Well, I would say I know the differences between the two. I must point out that I own a Chinese AK (mine was imported by Golden State Arms and simply has 'AK47S 7.62x39mm - Made in China' stamped on the receiver). I was simply curious whether the presence of a stamped receiver on the Type 56 made it worthy of being designated an AKM variant or not.

Personally, I think the best bet might be to literally just create a new sub-entry for the Type 56 under the AK-47 page and then we can focus on finding any and all movies that feature the Type 56 and putting them under there. This would reflect best the fact that the Type 56 is sort of a weird hybrid AK-47/AKM with distinctly Chinese characteristics (such as the hooded front sight), which most other AK derivatives (like the Maadis) don't have.

Haha, no offense taken, just wanted you to know I'm not a complete newbie when it comes to AKs, though obviously you completely blow me out of the water. Anyway, I would definitely appreciate the Type 84 pic whenever you get a chance. Not sure if there's anything else I need at the moment...but I would strongly encourage you to just take pictures of whatever you can get your hands on. As I've said, it's really great that we have you because this site is full of pictures that are copied from sites like world.guns.ru or (in some cases) AIRSOFT websites (i.e. the SP89 picture that we used to have before I replaced it).

BTW, these are some incredible pics you've gotten us lately, moreso than usual. How on earth did you get that Romanian AIMS from "44 Minutes"? Do you know Thell Reed, too? Also, I'm going to do a LITTLE bit of additional work on the Type 56 entry, and I think I'm also gonna ditch the AKS-47 one for now (simply because there don't seem to be any movies I'm aware of that have actual milled-receiver Russian AKS-47s or close copies) and move all the Type 56-1 entires down. If you disagree, you can revert (or partially modify) the edits and I won't mind. Also, good work on the RPG-7 article getting the Type 69 mentioned (it's something I wanted to do myself - mostly because "Kingdom of the Crystal Skull" also has a Type 69).

Re: Editing Dogs of War

Thanks for the info. I've seen those guns in a whole bunch of movies and I always wondered what they were, who made them, and why. I think they've also appeared in a couple episodes of The A-Team and a Chuck Norris movie or two.

I have some great screenshots of the fake Uzis which I took for my Raw Deal page (I've been meaning to work on it for ages, but so far, I just never have managed to get around to it). Here they are:

Re: image

Sorry for the mixup. Feel free to replace the image with a better one if you have one handy. It's good to have a professional armourer on the site to help out, you've been doing some good work so far. Orca1 9904 10:58, 8 June 2008 (UTC) Orca1_9904

Contact?

I was wondering, is there any way we could chat off-site? I'd enjoy the opportunity to talk with you about your work as an armourer and about some various weapons and films. My contact info can be found on my user page. I hope to hear from you soon, and wish you well. Orca1 9904 22:43, 9 June 2008 (UTC) Orca1_9904

Red Dawn

OK, I was simply confused because I thought you were saying that the Egyptians didn't call the full-auto version they made for their armed forces the Misr, which would contradict almost every book and web site on AKs I've read. You obviously know far, FAR more than I do, so I think it's perfectly fine if you want to edit the page to refer to the guns as Maadi ARMs. Perhaps it might also be reasonable to put in a note that the ARM is the semi-automatic version of the Misr or something? Also, please post the picture of the "Red Dawn" AKM you took.

Appreciate your contributions, and (especially) your photographs. It's really cool that we have somebody like you on here. Do you by chance have any pictures of the Norinco/Poly Tech AKs that the rental armories purchased in the 80s? A long, LONG time ago, somebody put one of them up for sale on GunBroker; I wish I had saved the picture. I'm also curious to know if you have pics of the Norinco Type 84...I've been trying to get a good one to add to the Casino Royale page and my Harsh Realm page for a while now.

Wow, thanks! Yeah, I'd prefer the basic fixed-stock configuration since the ones in Casino Royale and Harsh Realm seem to have that (except the wood on the CR guns looks like it can't be factory), but I wouldn't encourage you to go TOO far out of your way, as I recognize you must be really busy.

Which armory is it that you have access to?

Re: My two cents on the Hulk Launchers

Yeah, I think you're probably right...it looks to me that the armorers were shooting for an M32 look but couldn't get the real deal, so they took civilian launchers (most likely DefTech) and modified them heavily. I notice that there seem to be a lot of 37mm launchers which are depicted as HE grenade launchers in movies (i.e. Colt 37mm Flare Launchers substituting for M203s). I guess this is another case of the same deal.

Sure, you can re-post the CZ99 pic. It isn't "mine"; I took it from world.guns.ru, which is where many of the photographs of guns on this site come from (as you can imagine, that's why I'm happy to have someone like you who is willing to give us original photos, especially when they're of actual movie guns).

Thanks

The Dogs of War was one of my first "efforts" here. I knew, already, that you saw a guy running around with a MAC-10 during the weapons training phase but did not know there was one of those cheesy ass "fake" Uzis. Oh, the same goes for the Car-15s.

Incidentally, I forget what movie I saw it in but there was a fake Uzi in it and the foregrip on it was rotated so that the front sight was actually pointed downward!!!

Hey

Hey MoviePropMaster, I'm Alienqueen11, and I seen the images you have uploaded, and they're great. I also want to know if you can do me a favor, if you can upload a picture of a Remington 870 with Ghost Ring Sights and a High Capacity Tube like the one in the screenshot below for the Dawn of the Dead (2004) page, I would greatly appreciate it, and great work so far.

Thanks

Thanks for complitementing my knowledge on guns, I also reverted a version of one of your MP5 pictures because someone copied over it with an airsoft image, I really wish some people would checked the thing while they're uploading an image to make sure the name isn't already used to avoid mistakes like this. And once again, thanks for your contributions and keep up the good work. Alienqueen11.

Heartbreak Ridge M16's

I just saw Heartbreak Ridge on TV this afternoon, and all the M16's I saw on-screen were the A1 variant, complete with bolt-forward assist buttons at the rear of the upper recievers. Even saw one fitted with an M203 grenade launcher used by one of the Recon Marines under Gunnery Sergeant Highway's command.

Orca1 9904 08:01, 22 July 2008 (UTC) Orca1_9904 - He might want to look at my page and see they weren't all M16A1s.

Question

Gunmaster45: Hi, I was just wondering how is it you take a picture of a gun and get a perfectly white clear background? What method is used to get that effect? My other question is that on the Hollow Point page I made recently, did I get the AK varient right? I figured I'd ask you as you seem to be the AK pro on the site. Thanks. (My list of pages is on my profile if you feel like checking any of my other work as well.)

M14 rifle

I've noticed that the M14 and M21 rifle pictures on this site aren't really that great, is there any chance you could take some good shots? The pictures now are blurry, or black and white.