Discussion

MP5s

It would appear that this film is the first appearance of the MP5 in media, at least according to the MP5 page here. Do you think it's the first appearance of the MP5 in media, period? --Funkychinaman 23:12, 27 April 2012 (CDT)

Not necessarily MP5 related but the only thing that has ever bugged me about the movie is the fire discipline among the raiders. In at least two cases in the movies the raiders fire multi-second bursts instead of the usual short (three round) burst. In one scene in particular it looks like the raiders are hosing down the room packed with hostages. --Charon68 21:16, 28 April 2012 (CDT)

Production Notes

Firstly, well done for adding this film. This film gets a lot of criticism from people who don't know how the SAS conducts CRW operations, little do they know the SAS had advised the makers of the film. Other than the 2 troopers hanging from the helicopter with grenade launchers, everything else was how the SAS did these operations in the early 1980's. The SAS even participated in the film, it was them that abseiled from the helicopters in the finale according to Ian Sharp and Euan Lloyd.--The Mercenary 14:11, 27 April 2012 (CDT)

I agree. I remember this move was very controversial when it came out.Especially because it showed the anti-nuke movement (i.e. anti - United States) that was popular in Western Europe in the early eighties as being a dupe of the Soviet Union. I recall theaters refusing to show it, protests outside of theaters that did and so on. Made me want to see it even more. LOL. --Jcordell 22:23, 27 April 2012 (CDT)

Thank you for all the help. After watching this film, I can't believe no one else had done it before me. I'm an American, and even I thought they were being a little too hard on Labour, especially in the end. I was very confused by why they were playing "O Christmas Tree" in the end, it wasn't until later that I found it it was also the Labour party anthem. The film plods along for much of the running time, but the raid itself it spectacular. The only thing that bothered me was how much these SAS guys were firing from the hip. Do they actually do that? --Funkychinaman 23:01, 27 April 2012 (CDT)

No. I have photos showing GSG 9, GIGN, SAS and Gruppo di Intervento Speciale doing firearms/hard entry training from the late seventies. All the different members were using two hands for their pistols/revolvers and putting their SMG's/rifles/shotguns up to their shoulders. Just call it poetic license. And that type of "shooting" was portrayed more often in the seventies than it is now. You're right the movie does plod until the end. Not a great movie, but it sure did scare some people when it came out. All the attention backfired though. The movie did better at the boxoffice than many folks probably counted on. Nothing like forbidden fruit.--Jcordell 23:17, 27 April 2012 (CDT)

The demands that the terrorists made, however, were so ludicrous, I couldn't believe Edward Woodward's character could give such a deadpan reply. Richard Widmark didn't have much to do in the film, but his attempts at reasoning with the terrorists were hilarious. I think the ridiculous demands did detract from the seriousness of the film though. --Funkychinaman 23:55, 27 April 2012 (CDT)

Thats the job of the negotiator, he's there to appease the terrorist(s) and slowly wear them down. Although its the Labour Party anthem i thought the tune was played to highlight the communist influence in terrorism during that time, as the words of the chorus say "keep the red flag flying".

Also anyone notice how many characters were called Andy?..... 1st was Lt. Andrew Wilcox, the SAS man killed by the crossbow at the beginning. 2nd was Andy Ryan, Skellen's contact (in the novel he's also ex-SAS). 3rd and final was Major Andy Steele, Skellen's squadron commander.--The Mercenary 18:37, 28 April 2012 (CDT)

Unknowns

Unknown Grenade Launcher

Two SAS troopers suspected from a helicopter fire grenades from an unknown grenade launcher.

It may look a little silly, but they swing straight into the building right after blowing out the windows with the grenade launcher.

Federal Gas Riot Gun?

Federal M201-Z - 37mm. Upgrade from the L-5, the M201Z has a secondary ladder sight behind the latch and the barrel is ringed for a sling swivel. The L-5 has a plain smooth barrel.

I guess. You don't really get any better shots of it in the film. (Believe me, I know, I've watched the raid like five times already. It's amazing.) --Funkychinaman 10:04, 27 April 2012 (CDT)

Unknown grenade

The SAS troopers have an unknown grenade on their webbing.

Thats a dummy grenade, used for practice as it has the weight to go through glass windows. Its not specifically any type such as stun. smoke or frag.--The Mercenary 16:45, 29 April 2012 (CDT)

Specifically, it is a Schermuly Training Grenade:

Schermuly Training Grenade

The body of the grenade is plastic with an open bottom with the interior filled with a paper wrapped pyrotechnic charge. Once the lever was released there was a two second delay before this charge was propelled out the base of the grenade and exploded about half a second later. Although, as the name implies, it was originally intended as a training grenade it was found it could also be used as a stun grenade so its appearance on an SAS troopers webbing, particularly in the early 80s, is legitimate. --commando552 17:41, 29 April 2012 (CDT)