Talk:Collateral

Colt 9mm SMG

Can't speak to it's use in the US but Mexican tourist police carry them. - Nyles

They are issued to DEA agents from what I know. Some police stations are issued them as well. -GM

If you ever find pictures of Department of Energy security teams from immediately after 9/11, you will see quite a few of these in use. As best I know, though, they've mostly replaced their 9mm subguns with M4s, same as most LE tactical units nowadays. -MT2008 16:40, 8 November 2008 (UTC)

Vincent's Holster

With many people wondering what Vincent's holster is, I took some shots to help everyone out.

A zoomed in shot of Vincent's inside the waist holster when he draws it on the robbers.

Here's zoomed shots of both his holster and his mag holders.

Vincent's holster when the cab crashes.

Hope this helps someone I.D. them. - Gunmaster45

It sure helped me ID that Tom Cruise wore some tight freaking pants!

According to the DVD commentary, Tom Cruise used a serpa holster for the USP. So maybe he used one for the movie as well.

The Train Scene

when the lights come back on after the shootout, vincent, who has lost so much blood that his fine motor skills are beginning to deteriorate, does appear to have a full mag in his holders. when the movie cuts to the mag hitting the floor, even in stadard definition one can see that there are bullets in the mag. i am fairly certain that the cut is not of an empty mag hitting the floor, but vincent has dropped his last full mag and realizes that that he has been beaten. i know that this is a gun info site however i thought showing the correct sequence of events might be of some importance.

You can see the plastic red follower on the top of the magazine, an obvious indication it is empty. He also searches his belt for a long time to find a spare magazine. You should keep in mind he took the guards 5906 but no spare mags, so he didn't have anything to reload with anyway. I believe Mann commented on this in the DVD commentary but I might have to go back and check. - Gunmaster45

I always thought that Vincent had been going to reload, but dropped his one spare as a result of involuntary loss of control of his support hand, because he looks like he's got something in his hands right before he pitches forward and the camera cuts to the magazine hitting the floor. --Clutch 00:17, 15 June 2009 (UTC)

Thank you Gunmaster for pointing that out. at the time i wrote my original comment, i was unaware of the red followers as my S&W 1006 has white ones and my 4506 has black followers. looking at the frame and watching the movie again i can see the follower, not a cartridge.

• Originally, in the script, he actually WAS to have another mag, but fumbled. That was changed, though.-protoAuthor 04:14, 8 November 2009 (UTC)

Just bought the movie

Man(n), this movie is awesome. -protoAuthor 18:49, 6 November 2009 (UTC)

Ruger Mark II

The Ruger mark II is used t kill Daniel the club owner. After that it is never seen again, so I'm assuming Vincent put it in his briefcase which Max threw off the bridge, which is why it's never seen again. This became clear when in the train scene Vincent reaches for a magazines off his holders but he is fresh out, if he had his Ruger he could of used that. Also Vincent must of reloaded his Smith & Wesson 5906, so I guess it must use the same ammunition as a USP-45 either that or the security guard must of had spare clips. Could someone please verify this- thank you.

Well, seeing as the 5906 is a 9mm and the USP45 is a .45, he must have gotten the MAGAZINES (not clips) from the security guard. That's an interesting point about the Ruger, though. -Gunman69 17:13, 28 November 2009 (UTC)

He didn't ever reload the S&W. He only fires 1 mag. He didn't take any mags.-protoAuthor 03:03, 26 December 2009 (UTC)

Plus he uses one at Fever and loses the other after the car wreck. You can see it fall off.--FIVETWOSEVEN 21:15, 25 July 2010 (UTC)

Final shoot out.

In this article, it offers what appears to be a very assured explanation of the final shootout at the end of the movie. It claims that Vincent lost the battle because of his failure to change his killing pattern, blindly following the same method he uses to kill all his targets. I think that this theory is incorrect. Don't you think a hitman as experienced and capable as Vincent would know enough to change his method when it is clear it wouldn't work? While Vincent prefers to shoot his victims with the two-in-the-chest, one-in-the-head method, I'm sure that this tactic is used when he deems it appropriate, and I'm sure a man like Vincent, as intelligent as he is, would not stupidly follow this pattern when it obviously wouldn't work. When a metal door is blocking a clear shot of his target, I'm sure Vincent would know better than to shoot at the door itself, and take advantage of the situation and try to shoot through the windows.

How can a trained hitman like Vincent, lose against Max who has no training what so ever shooting single-handed when Vincent used both hands and fired with a good grip on the gun ? (AceV)

Lucky shot? But yeah, I get it, that last scene was a bit stupid when clearly a trained professional wouldn't just shoot at a metal door. He should have waited for Max to shoot and empty his gun since Vincent knows Max is an untrained taxi driver. I'm also wondering since Vincent lost his primary weapon, shouldn't he have a back up? He is an ex-military, special forces kind of guy after all. Excalibur01

well, vincent had (kind of) a back up gun, his ruger markII. It was in the bag, which max threw down the bridge and was crushed by the truck.

Well, Vincent was pretty pissed off at the end, what with being shot in the head and all. That may have clouded his judgment of situation a bit. --AlkoTanko 19:55, 22 March 2010 (UTC)

Well it pissed me off, Vincent spent the whole movie, killing people, people who have actually at least touched a gun and then all of a sudden an untrained cab driver just comes and kills him, in a a shoot out, not from behind or anything a shoot out, that was dissapointing. (AceV)

Just because he's skilled at killing people doesn't mean Vincent is indestructable, and just because Max never touched a gun doesn't mean he's going to fall over and die at the first stiff breeze to come along. People die all the time and they don't go out in a blaze of glory, it just happens, that's life. Besides, the whole scene at the end was about Vincent not changing his routine. The way he still reaches for magazines even though he's carrying a different weapon, how he goes for the mozambique drill even though there's a big steel train door between him and Max instead of shooting through the glass, etc. For all his talk of improvisation he was too set in his ways and couldn't prepare for a cab driver.

Slight comment overhaul

I did some work praising the good gun work on the movie, you guys like it?-protoAuthor 04:12, 23 January 2010 (UTC)

No

Ralph pls go.--AlkoTanko 11:48, 9 March 2010 (UTC)

Nice.--Spikemonkey 18:45, 9 March 2010 (UTC)

"the first gun we see"

It says "Detective Fanning (Mark Ruffalo) draws the first gun we see, a Smith & Wesson 4516 in .45 ACP". This is not true. the First gun we see is Vincents USP when he pulls it on max after el gordo falls out the window onto the taxi and max freaks out.

Ruger Mark II

Why would the suppressed shots be louder than the guys head hitting the table? In case you didn't know, suppressors were made to make guns quieter. Even in a confined space, a silenced .22 with sub-sonic rounds (that's probably what Vincent would have used anyway, condidering that he's a hitman and cared enough to use a silenced pistol anyways) is very quiet. I have also shot a silenced .22 (a Ruger 77/22 bolt action, although this was outdoors so maybe the sound didn't travel as much, but that's not the point) and it was very quiet. With a bolt action gun it's even quiter since the bolt doesn't move with each shot. But anyways, the only sound a suppressed Ruger mark II would make (and made in the movie) is a slight click when the action cycles. This would have been quiter than a slamming head, unless he had a really fatty forehead. --ColonelTomb 22:34, 25 June 2010 (UTC)

Also, if the guy's head had hit the table, he would have knocked over glasses, and knocked the table to the ground, which is MUCH louder than any suppressed gunfire.--Pølaris 22:52, 25 June 2010 (UTC)

A sub-sonic round in a .22 cal would not be able to cycle the action of a semi-auto, so if he shot more then once he wasnt using sub-sonic, ergo, the bullet would be over the sound barer and create that ol' classic crack of the round discharging. But for movie sake they we're probably just making the gun sound cooler. Spades of Columbia

My Ruger Mk II cycles fine with sub-sonic rounds, and I didn't modify it at all. --funkychinaman 17:01, 27 June 2010 (UTC)

Making Vincent is so resourceful he has a modded Ruger that has a weaker spring that cycles when shot with sub sonics. --FIVETWOSEVEN 17:05, 26 June 2010 (UTC)

The point was to explain why the "suppressed" gun was loud, not how it could in some way or another shoot a sub-sonic round. If that was the case a person could easily argue that he was using a 1050fps sub-sonic rd which in some guns can feed without modifacation instead of the normal 710fps round. Spades of Columbia

Yeah but (and correct me if I'm wrong) wouldn't he have shot him from such a close range that the bullet wouldn't have been able to break the sound barrier? Also, I agree with FIVETWOSEVEN on the theory of the modified spring. --ColonelTomb 02:20, 27 June 2010 (UTC)

You've been corrected because your wrong...the powder burn would have been spent by the end of the barrel which uses the twist rate to fully bust its velosity, meaning, its pretty much going its top speed by the end of the barrel and the crack noice is usually signifying the bullet has left the firearm...combined with the noice of a all-steel action clanking together as it cycles the next round make a "Silenced" pistol, not so silent. Spades of Columbia

What do you mean the "normal" 710 fps round? That would be a CB Long or Short, not a normal round. Also watch this vid of a guy using an integrally suppressed Ruger Mark II with standard velocity ammo; I hear no crack. http://suppressorbuyersguide.com/Articles.php?action=detail&g=content1235373509s And note that this suppressor is even shorter than the one that Vincent had, making it even less effective and yet still cycling and being very quiet with standard velocity ammo. --ColonelTomb 03:19, 6 July 2010 (UTC)

You are very much correct sir. You did indeed prove me wrong on that one...but originally i was trying to explain why it might have been so loud in the movie for being silenced...any thoughts on that.--Spades of Columbia 18:53, 6 July 2010 (UTC)

probably a decision made by the sound guys. Most people want to hear that distinctive chirp so they know, "oh hey, his gun had a silencer on it." Just playing into the audience's preconceptions.

Question for everyone: take a close look at the picture with the street thug holding the pistol to Max's head. It looks more like a Walther PPK or PPK/s. I own a couple so I'm familiar with the details on the rear of the slide and this photo looks more Walther than SIG. Could be just the way it looks, but it seems that way to me.

Its a SIG, look at the extractor. --FIVETWOSEVEN 21:13, 25 July 2010 (UTC)

Not to mention the cocking serrations. -- K 98.118.59.244 23:31, 25 July 2010 (UTC)