Talk:Act of Valor

Thoughts?

Saw the trailer when I went to see Courageous. I thought it looked pretty sweet. What do you guys think? - User:1morey October 14, 2011 9:38 PM (EST)

I'm seeing first showing on opening day. Spartan198 21:37, 14 November 2011 (CST)

It looks pretty impressive, even moreso in that actual SEALs were involved on-screen, not just in a behind-the-scenes consulting role like in most war films. I heard parts of this were actually retained for training purposes due to the degree of realism in the tactics and methods used in the film. Orca1 9904 22:26, 14 November 2011 (CST)

Overall, I thought the movie was lame, but that's the Marine combat vet side of me speaking, so I'm biased. On the plus side the violence and body count side of the movie is nice, and they don't try to gloss over the bloodier parts of it. But, couldn't they have put an M-14 or two in there somewhere, for old-time's sake? Maybe just for the sniper dude or something? The SEALs I know love their M-14s and I know they still carry them on some missions, just wish they would have thrown one in there. Travestytrav 01:18, 29 February 2012 (CST)

Apparently none of the SEALs in this one opted for M14s and I doubt the filmmakers had any leeway in what they used either. Besides, by this time they would have replaced their M14s with Mark 14s. Spartan198 01:40, 1 March 2012 (CST)

Personaly, I thoguht they were underarmed. The whole 8-man team had M4s, exept for the sniper. None of them had M203s, M249s, or M60 variants. I've always gotten the impression the SEALS, like most special forces units, tend to be over-armed. Yet in the movie, the squad would be outgunned by any infantry squad in the world. --Mandolin 15:39, 1 March 2012 (CST)

No, SEALs, as with most Special Operations Units, tend to be armed with as much as they need. The only time their ever over-armed is if their mission is expected to exceed a specific time set or they feel as though they need more than usual. SOU's choose their own armaments based on what they feel they may need to complete the mission. Puppet.of.fate 16:47, 1 March 2012 (CST)

You're never over-armed. You might not need a machinegun or grenade launcher but, as the saying goes, better to have and not need than to need and not have.--Mandolin 21:33, 1 March 2012 (CST)

Agreed. The first rule of battle is: Never fight fair. They had to know they'd be going up against guys with assault rifles in every operation, which means you always bring more than just assault rifles. They should have had at least one belt-fed weapon (more likely 2), and at least one (more likely 2) M203 if for no other reason than to shoot non-lethal and/or pyro rounds. I imagine everyone was carrying M4s to make production easier, especially since some of it was apparently live-fire. Travestytrav 03:37, 2 March 2012 (CST)

True, but you're talking about Special Operations Units, they only carry what is necessary to get the job done. And you don't always bring more than assault rifles, sometimes they run only SMG's and pistol's. And they may know everything possible about a mission but in a second things can change but they do their best to play it in their favor. And as I stated before they choose their armaments, if they didn't think it necessary they wouldn't take it. If they need to move quick their not going to carry a belt-fed, they want light equipment to make the job easier. Puppet.of.fate 14:19, 2 March 2012 (CST)

It's SOF/SF (Special Operations Forces/Special Forces), not SOU. Also, for what it's worth, the novelization has a Mk.46 and Mk. 12 being used on the resque mission. On the other hand, the novelization is sufficiently bad that it's best to ignore it. For a work associated with Tom Clancy, it's both over-descriptive and wrong about guns. And you ALWAYS need more firepower. You are NEVER over-armed. And why on earth did they leave the machine gunners behind for the last mission? There were 3 SEALs with SAWs, and they got left behind on the mission they were realy needed on.--Mandolin 16:06, 4 March 2012 (CST)

Frst, they go by either. People need to stop reading wiki, most of the info there is pretty faulty. Second you were the first to say "SOU's" were usually over-armed, so don't try and act like someone else threw it out there. You don't alwas need more fire power, if you trully need knew anything about Special Operations they almost always never carry more than they need unless they feel it necessary. What they do is ment to be done quick and their gear is always ment to be light, hence why they run the "newest of the new" equipment. One of the many reasons they are the best of the best is because they can get the job done with as little as possible. You have to remember it's still a movie, no matter how realistic they make it, things always change from novel to movie. The SEALs had a big say in how things were done, it may have been their choice to leave the three back. Puppet.of.fate 21:18, 4 March 2012 (CST)

I've never seen them refered to as "SOU", and I read a lot (not much wikipedia either). I do know a good bit about various special-ops stuff. And when did I pretend that someone else claimed they were over-armed? A 9-man sqaud in the US army has 2x M249s and 2x M203s, every other country's squads are the same or heavier. The squad in the movie went in underarmed, "Newest of the new" has more to do with better than lighter. "Light and move fast" is nice, until a bunch of bad guys come after you and you don't have any way of stoping them. An M203 round or couple of bursts from an M249 would have realy slowed down the pursuers. I know it's a movie, that's why the machine gunners got left behind, they're not main characters.--Mandolin 13:08, 5 March 2012 (CST)

You continually keep replying "You are never over-armed", and making it sound like someone else said they were. I've already said this before, if you actually "do" know anything about Special Operations you would know they don't function nor run the same equipment, tactics, and missions as regular troops. Oh and read a bit more, you'll find them referred to as "SOU". And if you knew the answer to your own question, why ask it? Puppet.of.fate 13:39, 5 March 2012 (CST)

SEALs don't go by "Special Forces" because they aren't Special Forces, Special Forces are Special Forces. SF isn't a generic term in the US military, it refers to a specific unit, that being the US Army Special Forces. Spartan198 22:00, 5 March 2012 (CST)

Just throwing in my two cents here, don't take this as an indication of taking sides or anything. I've read a lot of military non-fiction from the Vietnam War onwards and I've gotten the distinct impression that most teams within the special operations community usually carry a variety of weapons rather than just assault rifles. Granted, I mostly read up on the regular troops in the US Marine Corps and US Army but the books I have read on Delta Force, the Green Berets, the SAS and SASR (usually by former members) specifically mention that grenade launchers such as the M203 and LMGs such as the FN Minimi and M249 are carried into battle by said special operations units as sort of a force multiplier if required. Like the saying goes, "better safe than sorry!" Arguably, I haven't read any books by SEALs or on SEALs but most SF teams tend to work in the same general way. GunEnthusiast 03:50, 6 March 2012 (CST)

Just saw this and although the acting is wooden in parts (hey these guys are SEALs!) I found the action sequences entirely realistic. Sure there is some rock and roll but the weapons fire seems limited to all it needs to be (even including the suppressive fire laid down by the SOC-Rs). About the only thing that bugged me I suppose was the markings on the RPG warheads. They seemed to have the yellow/black markings indicating "watch it...I go boom". As a side note...out of all the characters in the film the only one I would not want pissed at me was Senior Chief Otto...you get the feeling the man has really been there and done that. --Charon68 18:21, 20 May 2012 (CDT)

Extended Trailer

I've got some additional pics from the extended trailer that I'm going to upload. Pics show a strange carbine-length sniper rifle that I can't ID (fore-end is that of an M4 with fixed FSP and KAC RIS, but it appears to have a 7.62 magazine), a Mark 11 variant (can't see the fore-end to ID which one exactly), FN Mags, FN Minimis, a possible M60D, and a handheld M60 (can't tell which variant because I can't see all of it). There's probably more, but I'll go over the trailer with a fine tooth comb later. Spartan198 22:38, 14 November 2011 (CST)

Upon closer examination, the handheld M60 is just another M240G. Spartan198 02:57, 15 November 2011 (CST)

Unknown Sniper Rifle

Take a look.

???

???

M4 fore-end with a 7.62 mag. Any ideas as to what it is? Spartan198 23:06, 14 November 2011 (CST)

Possably a SEAL Recon Rifle? See: http://img264.imageshack.us/img264/5515/sealsnipers6uy1.jpg (Wrong photo)scarecrow 00:04, 24 December 2011 (CST)

That's a Mark 12 Mod 1, not a RECCE Rifle. RECCEs are a 16" breed, in addition to being 5.56. The rifle above has a 7.62 mag. Spartan198 09:02, 24 December 2011 (CST)

Ah, sorry, theres a RECCE rifle on the same page i got the photo from which i can't seem to find now :(, that said it could still be a 5.56 with a 20rnd mag, films do a have a history of making things look larger than they actually are *cough* preditor M134 anyone? scarecrow 00:16, 25 December 2011 (CST)

Mag still looks too big to be 5.56 to me. But whatever it is, I'm pulling that screencap from the SR-25 entry on the main page since it's clearly not an SR-25 by the short barrel and fixed front sight. Spartan198 17:20, 26 December 2011 (CST)

Okay, I just got back from the movie and this rifle is definitely a 7.62. It's the same rifle that's in the screencap under the SR-25 entry (which I removed and placed here). I'm thinking maybe an AR-10 carbine? Spartan198 16:10, 24 February 2012 (CST)

Hmm, what do we know?

-its 7.62 - it has a solid M16 style stock - it has a fixed front sight and has a somewhat weird foregrip, it kinda looks like a rail but isnt... couldn't find many AR-10's (3-4 out of 50 i found) with a front fixed sight (not that it means much) unfortunatly i don't think it's even getting a release in my country (nor are there any other ways to get it) so i'll leave this to you to decide. scarecrow 07:42, 6 March 2012 (CST)

I have a feeling it may be an Armalite AR-10 1913 carbine.Recon

Looks like a LaRue Tactical Stealth OSR to me. Anyone Else?andrewe02000

That doesn't explain the barrel and fore-end that's virtually the same as an M4, though. I spoke to a friend of mine who knows one of the SEALs involved with production and the only response she's gotten is that it's "some kind of SR-25 variant". Spartan198 10:28, 9 March 2012 (CST)

Could it possibly be the SEAL's personally built rifle? Its not completely impossible for him to not have built a custom rifle for marksmanship duty. Afterfall, he is a SEAL and he would want a gun he would be comfortable. -The Winchester

It isn't at all unlikely that it is a rifle he put together himself. It's not uncommon for anyone is Special Operations to take different parts from multiple weapons and put them together to make one complete weapon. Puppet.of.fate 21:53, 20 March 2012 (CDT)

Watched the movie last night and the sniper rifle appears to be... KNIGHT'S ARMAMENT M-110 SASS (Semi-Automatic Sniper System) [1]- nice piece of kit...but had its issues in the field. --The Rapscallion 14:22, 2 April 2012 (CDT)

No, it's not an M110. Spartan198 18:10, 2 April 2012 (CDT)

-> I think I found it: = its 7.62/.308 = it has a solid M16 style stock = it has a fixed front sight = and has rail foregrip. As per mi findings, it matches with the "Panther™ .308 Classic / Model: RFLR-C with 4 rail free float handguard upgrade". Pictures here [2]. What do you think?-JavierMdR

I'm thinking we might have a winner. The vent holes in the rail systems definitely match. Spartan198 16:24, 10 April 2012 (CDT)

-> Here [3] another picture with a better look. It is also coded as "380 TAC20".

-> Im sorry, but this is a normal SR-25 with an 4-side attachable picatinny rail, 20rnd magazine, bipod, a 12x Scope and a 7,62x51mm (.300 Remington)Silencer

Its not a SR-25. SR-25s do not come with a fixed front sight or a carry handle.

Live Fire

Apparently this film is gonna use live fire,which is an extreme rarity for films. Gonna be interesting to see though

I don't believe this for a second as live ammunition is pretty much prohibited from a film set unless it's in a 100% locked down and closed environment. --cool-breeze 20:52, 23 December 2011 (CST)

I wouldn't be so sure, if you watch the trailer the miniguns on the boats are spewing out regular empty brass rather than fired blanks. --commando552 21:11, 23 December 2011 (CST)

See those look like blanks to me, and that one shot is a close up so it could have been shot on a locked down location, film editing is a clever thing ;)--cool-breeze 22:18, 23 December 2011 (CST)

According to BLACKFIVE.net, it's nearly all live ammo. He saw a screening of it, talks about it here ( http://www.blackfive.net/main/2011/10/update-act-of-valor.html ). RC 5213

Nearly all being the key word, i doubt any of the shots with anything other than the actual seals in the film where live fire and I doubt any of the actors used live fire. scarecrow 00:33, 25 December 2011 (CST)

I still doubt that it was live ammo, it just seems so implausible that it would be allowed, what if one of the bullets ricocheted, missed the target, etc. It seems like an absolutely unnecessary risk to use live ammo. --cool-breeze 04:16, 25 December 2011 (CST)

thats the whole idea of franagle ammunation scarecrow 23:32, 3 January 2012 (CST)

Pretty sure it would just be the SEALs using live ammo, the actors are probably using blanks. Yes it is dangerous, but the SEALs are trained to be excellent shooters so I can believe it. Bristow8411 14:30, 25 December 2011 (CST)

But like you say it's dangerous and seems like a stupid risk to me. --cool-breeze 18:09, 25 December 2011 (CST)

The film was shot during various SEAL training exercises and uses them as action set pieces, so it is possible that is what the article is referring to. --Markit 22:20, 26 December 2011 (CST)

Yea, if i remember correctly this was originaly made to be a recruiting video for the SEAL's that turned into a film.scarecrow 23:33, 3 January 2012 (CST)

My understanding from this featurette is that the live fire was done how the live fire in Miami Vice (2006) was done. Shoot the shit out of whatever you want shot, then add any people you need in the scene after. --Crazycrankle 06:58, 14 January 2012 (CST)

[4] The making of video shows that they used both blanks and Live Fire.

Just my two cents, I thought the movie was lame, but one thing I did notice was how realistic some of the weapons' firing sounded, so it doesn't surprise me that some of the shooting was live-fire. I would say any live-fire shooting was being done by the SEALs since it was only the M4s firing that sounded real. Most of the pistol shooting and ALL of the AK-47 shooting sounded fake. Travestytrav 01:09, 29 February 2012 (CST)

Live fire was definitely used in some (or all) the miniguns on the river boats. In a flyover shot, you can see the barrels get red hot on the miniguns, I doubt that can happen with blanks, as it is the friction of the bullets going down the barrels that causes the barrels to get red hot. I'm pretty sure if it was just blanks, the gases don't hang around long enough to warm up the barrel that much.

The sound effects were added in post production, those were not recorded live. --cool-breeze 16:21, 23 April 2012 (CDT)

Something clearly wrong with the front sight.

[[5]] Is it just me or there is some kind of "solid" front sight? Or,could it be just water? Littlesoldier1 18:03, 26 February 2012 (CST)

Looks like just water to me. Spartan198 18:29, 26 February 2012 (CST)

Something looks wrong to me. The front sight would block out anything you would see through the scope. Survivalkid21

Guns

I think I saw a M933 or Mk18 on the yacht, though it may have just been a M4. Also, a gunman in one of the trucks seemed to have a Beretta M12 or Walther MPL/MPK, any ideas? A few bad guys had pistols, but I couldb't see them well.--Mandolin 20:32, 28 February 2012 (CST)

I thought I'd saw a Mark 18, too, but it didn't appear anywhere else, so I presumed it to be just another M4. Spartan198 01:34, 1 March 2012 (CST)

This website as a photo of SEALs with Mark 18s and as far as I can tell this is the only time they are used in the movie.

http://www.filmofilia.com/act-of-valor-tv-spot-87064/

Likely an M4A1 CQBR rather than a Mark 18 (contrary to popular belief, they aren't the same thing). The Mark 18 is built on an M16A1 lower, while the lower on at least 1 of these carbines appears to be A2-style. Spartan198 18:16, 2 April 2012 (CDT)

Um, I doubt the intel is right Spartan. According to Wikipedia the the M4 CQBR is a M4 Close Quarter Battle upper Receiver, so you could put it on a just about any AR-15 patterned lower reciever. - Wantabe_Warrior38

I think he is mostly correct. A CQBR rifle will be built by swapping out the current upper for the short one, and in most cases the donor rifle will have an A2 lower (for example an M4A1). Mk. 18s that are assembled as complete rifles by NSWC Crane where they have tended to use A1 lower receivers (although I don't know if 100% of them are A1 lowers). I always assumed that the source of these A1 lowers was from the old M16A2E3/M16A3s that the Navy had before being replaced with the new M16A3, which were an M16A2 upper on an A1 lower receiver. It is true that you could put a CQBR on an A1 lower, but in real life you would generally only see it on an A2 lower. --commando552 19:09, 25 May 2012 (CDT)

I think I was confusing M16s with M16a1s (thinking of mag release fencing, etc, and by accident, lack of forward assist and brass deflector. I know, I know, the last 2 are on the replaced upper, but my mind jumped and left knowledge behind) so I was a little shocked when I read Spartan's comment, but now that I think about it; and could somebody confirm or deny this, the only difference between an a1 and a2 lower receiver is the trigger group/fire modes, so it shouldn't be odd to use an a1 lower for a Mk.18. - Wantabe_Warrior38

I haven't seen the movie and there are no screen caps of the gun in question so I can't say what lowers they actually are, but there is a difference between a full auto A2 lower (as in M4A1) and a full auto A1 lower.

A1 lower

A2 lower

If you compare the two pictures above you can see that there are a couple of structural differences, such as the reinforcing around the picot pin making the top of the front of the mag well curved rather than square, and the reinforcement at the rear push pin. Generally you would also have selector markings on the right side of a Colt A2 lower, but the one in this picture is made by another company. The pistol grip design will also be different if it is an A1 lower, but don't know if this is changed during the Mk. 18 upgrade. I think for the new Mk. 18 mod 0 they use a new M4A1 type lower, only reason they used A1 lowers on the original Mk. 18 is that they had them laying around and wanted to use them rather than buying new. --commando552 04:54, 26 May 2012 (CDT)

Thanks, for showing that to me, I had no Idea of the reinforcing at those areas, and going from MY SMALL pool of knowledge (ie. reading an airsoft forum full of people who have done, from what I can tell, lots of research into this stuff. It's their research and the knowledge I've gained from it) Mk.18 Mod.0 don't have the finger shelf (like on the grip in the picture of the a2 lower), but the Mod.1/SOPMOD block II (sorry if they are different things) might of added different options for the rifles, like the Magpul MIAD pistol grip. - Wantabe_Warrior38

Pistol grips can be easily swapped out, Warrior. But as far as I can find out, the "Mark 18 Mod 1" designation stems from misidentifying Block II M4A1 CQBRs (KAC rails replaced with DD rails, among other small changes) as Mark 18s. I haven't so far found anything to indicate any of the units that use Mark 18s are having their rail systems swapped out or otherwise being upgraded to a supposed Mod 1 standard. Not saying it isn't necessarily happening, just that I haven't heard or read anything about it. Spartan198 02:13, 27 May 2012 (CDT)