Talk:Ussaro Mod 1786

When writing a summary

Please note who makes it, what country issued it, etc. when speaking of a relatively obscure non-American firearm. Thank you. MoviePropMaster2008

Thank you Commando552 for the summary. It is necessary when the gun is not commonly known MoviePropMaster2008

The Ussaro Mod 1786 is actually a replica made by Davide Pedersoli of Italy (you can check it out on their product catalogue) of the French Model 1777 "Dragon" version of their "Charleville" Musket. You can tell the weapon designation is Italian because "Ussaro" is Italian for Hussar (in French it's "Hussard"). Also carbine versions of infantry longarms of the period were traditionally designated "dragoon" models since dragoons, as notional mounted infantry, were expected to carry longarms as part of their regular armament (other cavalry units might or might not).

"The Ussaro Mod 1786 was a light cavalry musket derived from the Charleville Musket. It became the standard weapon for all the French cavalry corps (hunters, cavalrymen, grenadiers, lancers, carabineers and dragoons) including the hussars, who preferred this rifles for it's lightness and short length. With slight modification this gun was distributed to some infantry corps and to the navy."

Some grammar issues aside, there's also plenty of factual inaccuracies. There's no such thing as a "light cavalry musket", it's called a carbine. French "hunters" are called "Chasseurs". There's no such thing as grenadiers in the cavalry, although there were "grenadiers a cheval" or Horse Grenadiers. Neither the Napoleonic-era carbine or musket are rifles, since both are smoothbore. And the infantry never received carbine versions of the Charleville, though the artillery did. -Phalanx

I wont speak to the usage or it being a replica, but I'm fairly sure you are thinking of a different carbine. The 1777 Dragoon had a barrel that was a couple of inches longer along with a stock that went much further up the barrel. I have seen this gun referred to as a 1786 Hussar, but don't know if this was an actual rifle that existed at the time, or whether it is a made up replica. --commando552 (talk) 05:39, 7 December 2012 (EST)

Huh, whaddaya know, turns out there IS an obscure "Mousqueton d'Hussard" out there, which is ramrod-to-butt (which explains the super-short-looking ramrod, which made no sense to me). I'll be damned if I can find an actual picture or scholarly article about an original, though. Why they chose to replicate such a rare weapon is beyond me, but hey. Given the apparent lack of surviving originals I'm assuming it was a specialist weapon that didn't see much use. That being said, it's definitely "Mousqueton d'Hussard 1786" or "Mod. 1786 Hussar Carbine" rather than "Ussaro 1786", and my comments on the wiki text re unit names and weapon terminology still stand (especially where it's referred to as a rifle, Napoleon never issued a single rifled longarm to his troops)> As far as I know, the 1777 Dragoon is the standard cavalry longarm, which would make sense since I've seen plenty of those in the flesh, but never one of these Phalanx (talk) 06:18, 7 December 2012 (EST)

No "hunters", but "chasseurs"! Sorry for the bad literal translation. Czech does not distinguish between a soldier and hunter as a hunter in the woods, for both meanings uses the term "Myslivec" (hunter).--Pandolfini (talk) 08:03, 7 December 2012 (EST)

Phalanx, is this what you would call a Model 1777 Dragoon Carbine:

If so, I thought it was called the "Cavalry Carbine" (Mousqueton De Cavalerie), as the Dragoons used "Dragoon Muskets" (lighter, slimmer muskets with a slightly shorter barrel). As to what you said about no infantry getting issued carbines, I think some did. The 1777 Cavalry Carbine had a side sling bar, but there were "infantry" versions of it that omitted this (the one pictured is such, not that you can tell as it would be on the left side) that I heard were used by Chasseurs a Pied and the Voltigeurs. The only reason I'm trying to work it out is that while looking what this gun had supposedly been in I noticed that the one from Brother Grimm has a longer stock, meaning it is the 1777 Carbine, and want to get my facts right before I make the page. Also, random question, do you know how the ramrod goes down into the butt as even if the ramrod was straight (in other pictures I have seen it doesn't slant down like this one) it doesn't look like it would get past the wrist. --commando552 (talk) 10:26, 7 December 2012 (EST)