Talk:First Blood

Widescreen

I'm sorry this page has widescreen pics but I made this page before I knew to crop out the black bars. It is a real pain to crop out the bars by resaving and uploading them. I ought to know, I did it for the Quigley Down Under page. -GM

Thanks for fixing the widescreen bars AQ11, I was acutally going to do this just after I did TRK for MT2008 but you beat me to it. - Gunmaster45

Rambo's M16

Where does Rambo get his M16? First he's laying in the Rocks watching the National Guardsmen go by, then he's got one slung over his back when he finds the civilian out hunting.

- Probably stole one from one of Teasle's deputies when he ambushed them. I thought he did have it slung when he came out of the water (but just hard to see). If not, him not having it on his back in one shot and having it in another is probably just continuity error. StanTheMan 19:54, 18 June 2010 (UTC)

Title

Isn't the title of the movie just "First Blood?" That's how it's listed in IMDB. --funkychinaman 12:34, 18 June 2010 (UTC)
Yes it is, but I think it's called Rambo: First Blood internationally.

That may be true, but aren't we supposed to go by however it is in IMDb? --funkychinaman 04:46, 22 July 2010 (UTC)

If you type First Blood in the search box, you'll be redirected to this movie page. The title is explained in the summary on the actual movie page. --Ben41 08:19, 22 July 2010 (UTC)

Alternate Ending

Anyone who's read David Morrell's novel "First Blood" knows of the changes in this movie from the novel. The alternate ending is not far off from the ending of the novel, where Trautman kills a wounded Rambo who also has a broken rib from a cliff fall into a tree; although Trautman's shot is from a shotgun a few feet away and blows John Rambo's head off. But virtually everything else has been changed or reversed; the location, characters living and dying, personalities. Trautman is asked at the end of the novel how he feels about killing his friend, and he replies "better than knowing he was suffering".

They apparently wanted to make the movie into a statement for Vietnam Vets as well as try to create a franchise, because in the book not only does John Rambo die at the end, so does Sheriff Teasel who was shot similtaneously by Rambo. And not only do both of them die, but Rambo kills all the deputies, the dog handler, and all the dogs and severely wounds one of the town's people who comes out with a gun. The location is changed from Kentucky to Washington State, so the scene in the book where Rambo meets a moonshiner and his son who gives him shoes, clothes and a .30-30 Winchester is gone (because in Rambo's escape from the jail basement and the sadistic cop he eventually shoots out of the helicopter, spraying blood and brains on the pilot and freaking him out so much he crashes at the low level in the canyon he's flying). In the novel, Rambo guts a deputy in the basement after beating the snot out of the sadistic one. His only crime is being an apparent "vagrant" in the Kentucky town and trying to get something to eat, and not liking being run out of town before he gets it. The only survivor in the woods is Sheriff Teasel who survives by crawling on hands and knees through thick sticker bushes, and who, as written by David Morrell, is not the arrogant, violence prone red-neck that Brian Dennehy portrays him as, but is a decent guy who is a Korean War veteran (the book was published in 1972), who's father was killed mistakenly in a hunting accident and the dog handler had become a surrogate father to him as a child. Rambo is not the "I don't want to kill anyone so don't make me do it" guy of the film, he is a hardened Special Forces operative who suffered terribly for a short time as a POW, and a flashback to that due to the brutality inflicted on him in the jail basement is what sets him off. He kills without emotion, without remorse; screw with him and you die--sometimes quicky and somtimes painfully, but you die. Also in the movie, along with the Model 94 Winchester the moonshiner gives him, Rambo is carrying a Colt Python that he recovers off the deputy's body that he shot from the helicopter door; and Sheriff Teasel is not armed with a Model 66 but with a Browning Hi-Power, which he shoots Rambo with at the end of the book as Rambo shoots him with the .357 Magnum. He dies seconds after Rambo, watching Trautman's ejected shotgun shell twirl through the air and hit the ground. There's almost a metaphysical bond that develops, where Teasel can get inside Rambo's head and "see what he's thinking" in anticipating his moves. Harleyguy 30 July 2010 16:38

Minus the wierd metaphysical bond, that sounds better than the actual movie. Is it written well? Because if it is I just might have to pick it up.

It's a good book; I'd recommend it. However, it doesn't appear that Morrel knows too much about guns. -SasquatchJim

I didn't read First Blood, but I read the novelization of First Blood Part II, also by David Morrell (who, in the foreward, acknowledges that yeah, Rambo did die in the original, but he's going to write it anyway) and in that book, he had Rambo make a big deal about the weapon he'd take on his mission. Originally, Rambo was issued a modern assault rifle with all the bells and whistles (I don't remember exactly, it was a long time ago) but Rambo specifically asks for an AK, and then cites some very good reasons why (ammo availability, confusing the enemy, etc.) So Morrell must've done a lot of research between these two books. The movie glosses over the whole thing, with Rambo bringing that MP5 without any complaints. --funkychinaman 17:43, 13 October 2010 (UTC)

Aside from the odd starlight scope or Colt Combat Scope, what "bells and whistles" were there for rifles in Vietnam? I mean, it obviously wasn't like today where you have everything from vert grips to iPod mounts. Spartan198 04:23, 14 June 2011 (CDT)

I was referring to the novelization of First Blood, Part II, which took place in the eighties. I don't remember exactly what the bells and whistles were, like I said, I read it years ago. I do remember that Murdock was disappointed when Rambo didn't like the new toy. --Funkychinaman 06:18, 14 June 2011 (CDT)

• In Kirk Douglas's autobio he said he was offered the Trautman role but would only do it if Rambo died at the end. As the producers were thinking of sequels, that was not on and they got Richard CrennaFoofbun 08:15, 13 October 2010 (UTC)

Really, Funkychinaman? I may have to check it out then. I know, in the original, he sites the .44 as the most powerful handgun in the world, and acts as if the .30-30 is a very powerful magnum round. In my experience, the author that writes guns best is Stephen Hunter. He seems like he knows his stuff. -SJ

Well the .44 magnum thing is just pop culture. (And at the time First Blood was written, it probably still was.) I just don't think Morrell is ESPECIALLY ignorant of guns. (And mind you, I read it like fifteen years ago. That part sticks out though, because it differed from the movie.) According to his webpage, he claims to have been trained in firearms. (That can be taken many way though.) Also keep in mind, First Blood was his first novel, and 13 years passed between that and Part II. --funkychinaman 03:38, 14 October 2010 (UTC)

Found a piece of First Blood: Part 2 in Google Books. It looks like Morrell is still a bit off. [1]--Funkychinaman 12:17, 7 July 2011 (CDT)

I wonder how many future script writers/authors of gun based novels are now getting their GUN education here on IMFDB? ;) We actually aren't a gun encyclopedia per se, since our focus is on identification, however, because we are still CINEMA HISTORY based, there is a LOT of movie history/trivia on this site. A lot of information that could be found NOWHERE else in the world, i.e. gun books. Seriously, how many firearms authors would make the notation that so many MP5s in the 1980s were actually just converted and chopped HK94s? Or the fact that XM177s were actually Colt Sporters with slip over faux flash hiders? Or the Star Model B impersonating the M1911 in so many movies? But we also have TONS of gun information as well. I sure hope script writers use this resource when they write new stories. :) MoviePropMaster2008 19:14, 26 December 2010 (UTC)

Old topic, but here is a filmed "Rambo dies" scene from First Blood that (obviously) did not make it into the finished movie. Dudester32 (talk) 13:56, 6 June 2015 (EDT)

'Ultimate Edition' DVD errors

I love this film and my 'Ultimate' DVD for it, but it has some grave errors on the weapon descriptions - It IDs the AR-15/M16A1s as 'M16A2's, complete with describing it as selective-fire with safe-semi-burst, and IDs the M72 LAW as the M136 AT4 launcher. Bah, like MPM said above, maybe these dunderheads should hop a look on this site before setting any of that stuff up. At least they got the M60 right. StanTheMan (talk) 23:41, 29 March 2013 (EDT)

Rambos ammo-belts

Is it just me or is there something peculiar about the ammo carried by Rambo? He carries an M60 MG which fires the 7.62 NATO so its logical to conclude Rambo would be carrying that round. I'm no expert, but it seems the round in the ammo-belts he is carrying is a different round. Am I imagining this?

Rambo

Dudester32 (talk) 14:32, 18 March 2014 (EDT)

Yes, those look longer than 7.62 NATO rounds. Then again, those are also not crimped blanks, so they wouldn't be going into the gun either way. --Funkychinaman (talk) 15:05, 18 March 2014 (EDT)

Glad it wasn't just me! Maybe the belts were made by some Hollywood prop-maker:Light-weight for the actor but still heavy-duty looking but not based on real ammoDudester32 (talk) 15:19, 18 March 2014 (EDT)

If it was provided by the costumes department, that would explain a lot. --Funkychinaman (talk) 15:42, 18 March 2014 (EDT)

What else could it be? It's too small for .50BMG, and there's no other caliber of ammo that size used in belts that I know of. Even if it's just a prop belt, you'd think they would make it with dummy 7.62 NATO and the appropriate links. .30-'06 then?--Mandolin (talk) 17:24, 18 March 2014 (EDT)

I would think most .30-06 would be in cloth belts. I was thinking 8mm. --Funkychinaman (talk) 17:53, 18 March 2014 (EDT)

Actually, I don't see any links. Maybe it's just as we said, just a costume replica. --Funkychinaman (talk) 18:00, 18 March 2014 (EDT)

Real links should be visible.

--Funkychinaman (talk) 18:03, 18 March 2014 (EDT)

Yeh I cant see any links neither on the Rambo screencap..It is probably a Hollywood mockup. Dudester32 (talk) 13:56, 19 March 2014 (EDT)

Interesting stuff, never noticed that before, I agree, that is probably a costume prop, no links, and the cartridges look to be too long for 7.62s. Though I have to say, other screens show what appear to be more proper ammo belts with links, like the ones shown on the FMJ screengrab above -

Rambo uses the M60 to take down a power transformer.

These look real, and in fact also look as if he's feeding them into the gun. Perhaps these were the actual blank belts, which of course got used and replaced with the costume prop in later scenes? StanTheMan (talk) 18:20, 18 March 2014 (EDT)

I agree! On closer inspection they do look like real 7.62mm blanks unlike in the other scene. Dudester32 (talk) 13:56, 19 March 2014 (EDT)

Look at this retouched photo I found of Rambo with his ammo-belts: Retouched photo/pic Talk about large rounds! Actually they look like Soviet/Russian 12.7mm rounds: Soviet/Russian 12.7×108mm Dudester32 (talk) 14:02, 19 March 2014 (EDT)

Well, here's a pic of some .50BMG rounds from Assault Girls:

The rounds across her chest are .50 BMG rounds.

--Mandolin (talk) 21:08, 19 March 2014 (EDT)

The Russian 12 and American 12mm don't look that different due to their close lengths:

American & Russian 12mm comparison

Dudester32 (talk) 16:37, 29 March 2014 (EDT)

M72 LAW

One thing in this movie that bothered me was the Guard soldier with the M72 LAW. Now in addition to the fact that the guy didn't seem to have any other weapon slung or visible...can someone explain what he was doing with the thing in the first place? This was a hunt for a fugitive in a forest. Not an engagement with insurgents with access to light armored vehicles. Sorry...rant ended. --Charon68 (talk) 17:46, 30 March 2014 (EDT)

Its probably Hollywood license regarding why this "Earl" guy carries a rocket for a fugitive hunt. (In the march by the river Earl is seen carrying just the LAW). If I'm not mistaken the LAW was carried by troops in Vietnam as support. But unlike the M79 grenade launcher carriers, the LAW carriers had an M16, so the movie doesnt make sense in that regard neither. Unless some National Guardsmen can explain the reason for the presense of the LAW, I'd sign this up to Hollywood License. Dudester32 (talk) 12:02, 2 April 2014 (EDT)

M60

It was recently entered in the M60 entry about a custom-built replica M60 capable of custom gas-operated lines for real flames that could be adjusted and 12 volt electric lines that hooked up to a battery so that, each time the trigger was pulled, the bullet chamber area sparked. The prop was later used by Chuck Norris in the 1984 film Missing in Action. This information was taken directly from the here.

Can anyone verify if this replica is actually seen onscreen in either First Blood or Missing in Action? I thought the M60 seen in both films were real weapons. --Ben41 (talk) 15:38, 4 June 2015 (EDT)

Screen-used imitation M60 from First Blood.

I'm not sure why it would be necessary. It's not like they had any trouble obtaining a real M60, nor did Stallone have any issues carrying or firing it. --Funkychinaman (talk) 15:42, 4 June 2015 (EDT)

Perhaps the high cost of firing real blanks or proximity of the weapon to the camera? --Ben41 (talk) 18:01, 4 June 2015 (EDT)

Well, real test would be if we can find a scene where the gun is firing but not ejecting brass. Evil Tim (talk) 18:28, 4 June 2015 (EDT)

I wouldn't think it'd be that hard to spot. The barrel and bipod are totally different. --Funkychinaman (talk) 18:35, 4 June 2015 (EDT)

I guess they might have lost the flash hider like MPM's Morita, but even so, it looks pretty fake. Evil Tim (talk) 18:44, 4 June 2015 (EDT)

It seems that "Ellis Props" (who the COA is attributed to) doesn't have a very good reputation. So, unless someone can spot it in the film, we should assume it's a fake. The thing seems pretty elaborate for a fake, though. Maybe it was made for some other production?--Quarax (talk) 18:50, 4 June 2015 (EDT)

Down in the comments one guy says that there's about 100 real hand-signed Ellis CoAs and the rest are forgeries, and most of the real CoAs are weapons. So this is probably a prop from some other production (like one of the many parodies of Rambo) which has been issued with a fake cert saying it's the M60 from First Blood and Missing in Action. I don't know why Ellis would have the First Blood M60 when Syd Stembridge is in the credits, so that's pretty suspect. Evil Tim (talk) 19:08, 4 June 2015 (EDT)

HK33 vs M16

I am pretty sure the weapon used by Brian Dennehy's character (the Sheriff) was an HK 33 or 93 given the curved nature of the magazine on the weapon.

Yes, you are correct...HK93.

How come Teasle uses the HK33 when the rest of his men use M16s?. This reminds me of when the US Navy SEALs used the HK33 over the M16 in Vietnam, what was the reason for this?.

I guess he's got a different rifle just to stand out a bit from the "regular cops" who have M16's, or because he leads the Rambo hunt. And about Navy SEALs using HK's over M16's in Vietnam, perhaps reliability issues? Less jamming when it hits the fan? --CnC Fin (talk) 10:45, 23 September 2015 (EDT)

The M16's direct impingement gas tube needs to be clear of water to work, while that's not a problem with a gas piston, like on an HK. You can see how the Navy may have a problem with that. --Funkychinaman (talk) 10:54, 23 September 2015 (EDT)

Regarding the whole "HK33 over M16 in Vietnam" question as mentioned above. I know its a late reply, but my theory on the question is it might have something to do with the whole "deniable weapons" issue which also led the Special Ops troops to use the Swedish Carl Gustaf M/45 (Swedish K SMG). Dudester32 (talk) 14:22, 27 May 2016 (EDT)

The HK33s used by the SEALs were produced by H&R and had an actual military designation (T223, "T" for "Trial"), so it may have been on the short list as a potential future standardized rifle. After all, the M16 was originally a temporary stopgag until the SPIW came online, but we all know how that played out. Plus, the SEALs liked its 40 round magazine. Spartan198 (talk) 18:48, 11 May 2019 (EDT)