Talk:The Unit

Beretta Cheetah or SIG-Sauer? (updated 8/10/10)

I've added some pics and it looks more like a SIG. Mack also mentions in the episode that she's carrying a .45 instead of 9mm. --Ben41 04:46, 5 August 2010 (UTC)

Look at the last pic. Thats a SIG for sure. Looks like Jack Bauers SIG from the first few seasons of 24.

What does this look like? Cause someone say it's a Cheetah. Cause it looks like a USP Excalibur01

Looks like a Beretta Cheetah in the cap and looked like one last time I watched the episode (which wasn't that long ago). It's too round and curvy to be a USP, which is square and blocky. Spartan198 16:52, 12 March 2010 (UTC)

Then we have a continuity error in the dialogue. In the same episode where she used this gun, Mack asked why is she using a .45 than a 9? Excalibur01 18:14, 12 March 2010 (UTC)

Either that or it's implying her back-up is a larger caliber than her primary (a choice which doesn't make sense to me, either). Maybe just a script error or a moment of miscommunication between the armorer and director/writer/etc.? Heck, maybe the director just liked the Cheetah more? Who knows really. Spartan198 00:26, 13 March 2010 (UTC)

Her back up is a Derringer gun. Excalibur01

Oh yeah, now I remember. This scene is one of the more ridiculous ones in the show. Basically, Redcap empties her Cheetah into the soldier's body armor, kicks away his M4 but ignores the fact that the guy has a sidearm, drops the empty magazine from her gun with the guy staring straight up at her, then gets on the radio without reloading her gun first. I literally screamed "you idiot" at the TV. Spartan198 16:23, 13 March 2010 (UTC)

It was obviously on purpose for the script so she can bust out her back up. And about that episode, the rest of the unit had encountered at least 2 enemies with M4s and extra ammo, yet it never shows them picking up enemy weapons. They were running out during that last stand. That one bad guy's M4 would have been very useful right about then. Excalibur01

Look at the last pic. Thats a SIG for sure. Looks like Jack Bauers SIG from the first few seasons of 24.

Yeah, now that you mention it, it does look like a SIG. P245 maybe by the squared trigger guard? Spartan198 10:06, 5 August 2010 (UTC)

Here's a few more screencaps. I'm still not sure what it is, but it's definitely a SIG, either a P229 or P239.

--Lynx 21:00, 10 August 2010 (UTC)

So which SIG shoots a .45? Besides the P220 Excalibur01 22:13, 10 August 2010 (UTC)

Neither the P229 or P239 do. I imagine the line about the .45 is just an error on the scriptwriter's part. Taking another look at the screencaps, I think it's a P229. Note that there are two grip screws, where the P239 only has one. In addition, the empty magazine looks to be a double-stack (the P239 is single-stack).--Lynx 23:33, 10 August 2010 (UTC)

I agree with Lynx. It's a two-tone P229. Also, NEVER go by what the script says, because that's a bad way to tell. The screenwriter may have written in ".45", but the armorer may have brought a 9mm 229 to the set. -MT2008 23:45, 10 August 2010 (UTC)

Like the script for Predators. All the guns are completely NOT what the script writer wanted Excalibur01 01:46, 11 August 2010 (UTC)

Regarding her "busting out her back-up", it may very well have been in the script and intentional, but it's still a ridiculous scene in the way it played out. The script writers could just as easily have wrote in the soldier besting (e.g., cracking her in the face with the stock of his M4 or something) and disarming her, then as she's on the ground and vulnerable, said soldier could advance on her with intent to kill and let his guard down (as all TV bad guys do when up against a female protagonist), only for her to raise up her leg, pull out the back-up, and put a round through his eyeball. I mean, could you conceivably see this scene working if Mack or Jonas were in Bridget's place? Spartan198 04:09, 15 November 2010 (UTC)

Into Hell

Does anyone find it odd how in Part-2 Mack and Grey didnt actually kill the Gunners. they like scared them off. they could have then went and not only confirmed their lack of an escape. but also confirm their Nationality? Dirtdiver 6421 00:30, 7 August 2010 (UTC)

But how would the gunners know their nationality?

I thought they did kill the gunner with the RPD and then took off, then waiting for the rest to give chase so that Jonas could go Rambo on them. Excalibur01 03:00, 7 August 2010 (UTC)

That was at the end of part 1. Dirtdiver is talking about part 2 when Alpha Team is barricaded in the basement of the psychiatric hospital. He means the Syrian gunners below.

Syrian forces set up the DshK in Season 4's "Into Hell, Part II" (Mack refers to it as a "big gun".

Spartan198 10:21, 7 August 2010 (UTC)

Correct. and to the un-named question about their nationality think about it. their white (no racism intended), their wearing expensive body armor (who else). and they have heavily customized M4A1s. who else uses the M4A1? SAS maybe. besides didnt he yell out "big Gun" that would be in english. who speaks english??? Dirtdiver 6421 19:32, 7 August 2010 (UTC)

There's no guarantee they heard Mack, he was facing away from them, there was only a small opening in the door for sound to pass through, and maybe 30 feet of distance. And M4's are used by countries all over the world, 5 of which actually surround Syria. As far as the body armour bit goes, none of them are wearing any type of armour, just Blackhawk load bearing vests. $190US wouldn't be to much for most SF units. And about 500 million, to 1.8 billion people speak English. ;) Film and television often require what is called a suspension of disbelief, The Unit is no exception. The best option is just to go with it. --Crazycrankle 22:30, 7 August 2010 (UTC)

You answered for me. A great example of identity in an international incident would be in MW2 in the No Russian mission. Just because you see a bunch of white guys with M4s, M240s and speaking in English, you cry out "Americans". Of course that plot was stupid and I'll talk about it somewhere else, but the point is clear. In part 2 of Into Hell, they could have been anyone. The locals might have heard or saw something and maybe even recovered Jonas's M4 he left behind and the body of a couple American soldiers captured, but those are dead guys and they can say terrorists kidnapped them and brought them here, but they didn't capture anyone of the Unit alive so it doesn't matter if they spoke and even if they saw faces, nothing can really be proven because they are black ops and if the US government is questioned, they'd say they have no idea who they are talking about. Excalibur01 22:42, 7 August 2010 (UTC)

None of which explains the 50+ people locked up in the mosque. it was quite obvious they were american. as they not only spoke english, but they also asked were the americans were held. and i guess i know what you mean about the Vests. but still BlackHawk is still an American Company. M4A1s are STILL used by US-SOF. i guess however they werent wearing any American flags so thats one thing. i will admit that just like in Johnny B. Goode they left little to no trace. on that topic couldnt the slug in the translators head be led back to America? Dirtdiver 6421 23:48, 7 August 2010 (UTC)

They didn't shoot any translators in the head. Not to mention, any of the many countries the US sells M4's to likely receive ammunition to go with it. And it's not just Americans who rescue Americans. Israel, Jordan and Iraq are friends of the US, and they share borders with Syria. They could have done it, or it could have been Canada, Britain, or any number of countries. Not just friends either, enemies could use it to create more tension between mid-east countries and the US. Iran has plenty of white people, there has to be at least 5 who speak fluent English with an American accent. Same with North Korea. Neither of which would have issue killing a few people to cause the US more trouble. --Crazycrankle 01:12, 8 August 2010 (UTC)

Noted. but im talking about Johnny B. Goode. in that episode their in IRAN. and Mack shoots the translator in the head. Dirtdiver 6421 01:34, 8 August 2010 (UTC)

With a GI 1911, to boot. How common would .45 caliber be in that region? And FYI, SAS use the C8SFW, not the M4. Spartan198 12:19, 8 August 2010 (UTC)

It's the same weapon and fires the same ammo, it's just called a different name. Like how the Canadians also use M4s and M16s, but it is called a different name and look just a BIT different. But as I said before, using the same guns, ammo and look the same doesn't matter to the special forces community because anyone who wants to, can get a hold of it. Do you know how many GIs must have died during WWII? Someone could have lost their 1911 on their way to Germany and it would have wounded up in Africa somehow. And how many common people know guns? The Iran police questions the people in the mosque about their weapons and most likely, they'd say "they got guns". You'd ask a common man in the US about what guns our troops use and they most likely don't know. In an international incident, eye witnesses can only prove so much. Excalibur01 15:04, 8 August 2010 (UTC)

i guess. but even if they didnt no the name the police who probably no little more weaponry than them. would likely ask. is it like an AK (which is the gun EVERYONE has.) or the kind americans use. and in Johnny B. Goode im not talking about the gun. but the ammunition itself. being Special Ops their likely to have high standard Ammunition. American made ammunition. Something any forensic team would have the brains to look at. Dirtdiver 6421 19:47, 8 August 2010 (UTC)

But we can still go with the whole "The US is saying they didnt send any spec ops guys to your country excuse. Excalibur01 01:50, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

true. although Into Hell (part 1 and 2) are some of my favorite episodes, i was truthfully very disappointed in the body count.i guess that makes it more realistic but i would have liked to see a bit more Action in it. Dirtdiver 6421 02:15, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

Does anyone no if the weapon being used by Col. Tom Ryan in "Into Hell" is a Colt M933 or a HK416 it appears to be the same make as in Five Brother/Play 16 minus the vertical grip. Dirtdiver 6421 15:55, 29 August 2010 (UTC)

I'm very sure it was a 10" HK416. Can't confirm it though, needed the hard drive space. --Crazycrankle 16:47, 29 August 2010 (UTC)

It's a 416. Watch the special features on the DVDs and you'll get a better view of it.--Lynx 21:34, 29 August 2010 (UTC)

Thanks much guys. i actually was just watching the video off of I-tunes and noticed it looked more like a 416 the 2nd time i watched it. why is it so rare that Movies/ Tv always uses the CQC variant of it? do you think its because with the 14.5 barrel it looks the same as an M4 to the average person? Dirtdiver 6421 22:23, 29 August 2010 (UTC)

Maybe it's because the 416 isn't widely available to armorers of movies and TV. It's awesome to have the 416 features in The Unit but they stopped using them in season 4, which is a shame since Excalibur01 02:42, 30 August 2010 (UTC) im sure knowone knows the answer but does Delta Force in real life use the M203 still or do they use the HK321? Dirtdiver 6421 23:10, 1 September 2010 (UTC)

Your guess as to what the actual Unit uses is as good as any of ours. The only known "Delta" weapons are ones they've been seen using in past operations (e.g., Randy Shughart's M14). Spartan198 04:20, 15 November 2010 (UTC)

Agreed. i would suggest watching Tactical Arms of Tactical Impact. very good shows and the 3 hosts are Ex-Special Ops. Larry Vickers is a famous member of Delta Force who is a founder of Nighthawk Custom, Kyle Defoor is was a Navy SEAL and Jason Falla was an Austrain SAS Operative. Dirtdiver 6421 23:11, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

BTW, what's an HK321? Spartan198 23:15, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

Maybe he meant the XM320 Excalibur01 00:26, 15 December 2010 (UTC)

Flashlights, PEQs red dots, ACOGs maybe and at least 2 of them had the grenade launchers. Excalibur01 01:29, 17 December 2010 (UTC)

no. the HK321 or 320 i dont recal is HKs version of the m203. it has a verticle grip hard to explain but more effective, supposedly, than the 203. does anyone happen to no what kind of attachments they carry "into hell"? Dirtdiver6421 01:12, 17 December 2010 (UTC)

The M320 (not HK321) is derived from HK's AG36 grenade launcher designed for the G36 rifle, it's not in any way mechanically-related to the M203. As for your other question, Jonas' M4 had an ACOG attached to the carry handle and a vertical foregrip, Grey, Bob, and Mack all had M4s with EOTech 551 holosights, PEQ-2A laser modules, Surefire lights, and Cobray CM203 flare launchers standing in for M203 grenade launchers, and Ryan's HK416 had an EOTech 551, PEQ-2A, Surefire light, and vertical foregrip. Spartan198 13:45, 6 January 2011 (UTC)

Unknown S&W pistol

Anyone know what model pistol this is? It appears to have a 3.5 inch barrel, squared trigger guard, external safety, and an external hammer (the hammer isn't very visible in the screencaps, as it's only seen on screen for moment).

--Lynx 03:10, 18 August 2010 (UTC)

Which episode is this? Excalibur01 05:47, 18 August 2010 (UTC) This episode is "Hero" and is from Season 4. --Ben41 05:48, 18 August 2010 (UTC)

I don't think this is a 459 as has been posted. The barrel looks shorter than that of the 459, rather, it looks similar to that of a 469. Also, the grips are different.--Lynx 18:33, 31 August 2010 (UTC)

Whiplash

I noticed that in "Hero" Sam's first episode that he has some sort of SIG (possibly a 229) just before he pulls out the flashbang grenade in the opening scene. Can anyone confirm this for me or add some screenshots ??

Makarov "Kirovsky?"

In "Endgame", Bob refers to the Makarov he finds as a "Kirovsky." Is this an actual name/nickname for the Makarov (or the Gyurza) or is it simply TV talk?--Lynx 03:04, 23 August 2010 (UTC)

ID weapons and episodes

Trying to figure what episodes these screenshots are from:

The gun above must be a tokarev tt-33. Most probably the chinese copy Norinco Type 54 / Model 213. I base this off the fact that there are no soviet ones in chrome/stainless. Or possibly the Zastava M57 witch can be obtained in dualtone with silver slide.

Also, does anyone know what type of rifle this is? It was seen in "The Wall", and it appeared to be an automatic weapon.

Need ID on the handgun Hector uses in "The Wall"

The small pistol on the left looks like a stainless colt mustang to me. - J3

I think the first is from the end of "The Conduit". The second is from Season 2's "Extreme Rendition". The third and forth pictures almost look like a Hi Point carbine (converted to full auto, or perhaps the sound editor simply used the sound effects of a full auto weapon), while the last picture looks like it might be the Colt Compact M1991A1 that Kim uses.--Lynx 12:17, 23 August 2010 (UTC)

I would have to say your right in the first 2. Mack uses the Walther in the Conduit that was before he suppressed it. the 2nd was from Extreme Rendition when the EX-operator "escaped" Hector planted the bag there with the handgun in there. im not sure about the 3rd picture but im positive the 4th is from the episode "the Wall" i believe it might be Bob's sidearm as Mack had the walther. Dirtdiver 6421 16:23, 23 August 2010 (UTC)

Walther ID episode

While Mack did use the Walther in "The Conduit", this particular screenshot is not from "The Conduit" because the episode aired after this shot was uploaded. Any other guesses?

I've seen every single episode from the Unit, minus Paradise Lost. id like to think id remember when he used that weapon as every other episode he uses the Colt 1911 and a Glock (in Security). he used the Walther in Conduit and the Wall. is it possible it happened in Paradise Lost? Dirtdiver 6421 13:20, 24 August 2010 (UTC)

That's not Mack's hand, try looking for someone else holding a Walther. --Crazycrankle 14:04, 24 August 2010 (UTC)

The screenschot was uploaded the same day "Sudden Flight" (S4E2) aired. Can anyone check the first two episodes of Season 4 to see if it's from one of them? (I realize it could be from any episode from Seasons 1-3, but this seems like a good place to start).--Lynx 18:54, 31 August 2010 (bUTC)

This image is at the end of The Conduit this is the episode where Mack goes undercover in the fight club. it is a walther ppk that he removes/puts on the suppressor after killing some dude.

You sure? It was uploaded a week before The Conduit aired.--Lynx 01:27, 1 September 2010 (UTC)

Im sure its unlikely but is it possible that it was uploaded off of a preview? Dirtdiver 6421 23:08, 1 September 2010 (UTC)

Ok, I just double checked, and it's definitely not from The Conduit. There's no closeup of a PPK like that.--Lynx 23:42, 1 September 2010 (UTC)

SG 552 Optic

Is it just me, or is Grey's SG 552 equipped with a C-MORE ATAC sight with the lens missing?

File:ATAC 1.jpg

--Lynx 23:19, 24 September 2010 (UTC)

That is definitely what it looks like, I can't think of a reason for this, there is now no front sight to aim at range with, surely? Maybe it was damaged or an bizarre Armorer choice to look distinctive. Can the lens and it's placement be removed like this, easily?--Jackie.45Cal 11:41, 1 October 2010 (UTC)

They use the same optic (with the lens now attached) on the SG 552s in "The Wall", so I imagine the one used in this episode was damaged at some point before/during filming.--Lynx 00:46, 2 October 2010 (UTC)

Maybe it fell off :P I'm with Lynx I think the lens was probably damaged at some point and it was transported attached to the gun so they couldn't get a replacement lens and the iron sight was already removed so they just used it without the lens. --cool-breeze 16:27, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

That C-More sight has a folding lens on it so you can move it into the down position and use the iron sights.--phoenixent 11:44, 16 April 2012 (CDT)

Jonas' pistol in the pilot

On the main page you have screen caps identifying the pistol that Jonas has in the pilot as a Kimber. It isn't. It doesn't have the front slide serrations. It looks more like a customised 1911 of some sort. After the pilot he started using a Kimber but in the pilot he doesn't. I'll try get a screen cap of a good look at the pistol at the end of the episode that shows the lack of front serrations on the slide.

Pretty sure its a Kimber. From the pics on the main page the rear sights are the same, the trigger guard is the same and the grips are the same. Jonas has always carried a Kimber as his sidearm. Get a screen cap but from what I can tell its definately a Kimber.

Here's a couple of screen caps. In both of them you can see that the slide serrations on the back are completely straight, not the slanted ones of the Kimber and in the second picture you can see that there are no front slide serrations which indicate that it isn't a Kimber as all Kimber Custom IIs including the TLE II and the Kimber Warrior that Jonas uses throughout the series do. --cool-breeze 10:57, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

EDIT: OK, it seems that I have no idea how to imbed the pictures. I've uploaded them. But I can't seem to get them to show up here. --cool-breeze 10:59, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

File:Vlcsnap-174566.png

File:Vlcsnap-175315.png

Edited. Looks like you're right about the cocking serrations. I'm no good at ID'ing 1911 variants but I think it might be either a Colt or Springfield model.--Lynx 16:01, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

I think you're right about Springfield. In the picture where he is reloading if you look closely towards the cocking serrations it looks like the Springfield logo is on the slide. I can't tell though as it isn't clear enough. --cool-breeze 16:18, 19 November 2010 (UTC

I added some shots, and I'm starting to think it's a custom built model. Any thoughts?--Lynx 03:06, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

Jonas shows Ron his 1911. This shot gives a good view of the extended magwell.

Jonas fires his 1911 at the mirror. The lettering on the slide is barely visible.

Jonas aims his 1911 at a hostage he initially suspects to be one of the hijackers. The hammer on the pistol is uncocked despite the fact that is was fired moments before.

is it possible it is a Nighthawk Talon II? Dirtdiver6421 23:45, 5 January 2011 (UTC)

Checked out the Talon but it can't be that because the markings are under the ejection port on the one used by Jonas, the Talon's markings are further forward near the front of the pistol. --cool-breeze 00:31, 6 January 2011 (UTC)

which markings? and is it possible its another Nighthawk? Dirtdiver6421 02:20, 6 January 2011 (UTC)

He's referring to the words engraved on the slide just below the ejection port. A quick check of Nighthawk's website shows that virtually all their pistols have similar engravings, but they are farther forward on the slide.--Lynx 06:01, 6 January 2011 (UTC)

thanks. the Nighthawks are very nice weapons. its a shame they dont have any in the movies. Dirtdiver6421 02:01, 7 January 2011 (UTC)

Just looking at the picture of it in his holster it appears to have some custom grips on it as well, there appears to be some sort of symbol on them but I can't make it out. Possibly a Special Forces insignia? --cool-breeze 15:06, 28 February 2011 (UTC)

Kimber Warrior

I've just been re-watching the series as I bought the entire series on DVD recently and what it says about Jonas using a Kimber Warrior from the fourth season on may be wrong. I think he starts using it in the second season as his Kimber from the second season onwards has a rail and on some of the shots of the front it looks like it is lacking in the long guide rod which the TLE II has. --cool-breeze 10:06, 17 December 2010 (UTC)

M4 (updated 1/5/11)

http://www.imfdb.org/images/3/35/TheUnit_21033.jpg Why is the charging handle moving back like that? I'm pretty sure it doesn't move like that in real life, and stays in the forward position throughout the firing cycle. Is it possible this isn't a real M4 and is some sort of replica?

Actually if you have ever handled any AR-15 variant, military or civilian this can happen if the bolt is locked back. Let's say you manually make the bolt stay open. You pull the charging handle back and press down on the release paddle. Once the bolt is now open, the charging handle you were pulling on is not dangling a bit and won't automatically retract back into place like when you chamber a round. You would have to manually push the charging handle forward, otherwise it would stick out. The scene looks like Jonas had emptied his M4 and musta nudged the charging handle and it flew back Excalibur01 15:57, 6 January 2011 (UTC)

I've watched this episode, and I can tell you that the editor just took some footage of Jonas holding his M4, and firing sound F/X were added. Jonas isn't actually firing the weapon (that is, he isn't firing blank ammunition). I'm guessing they just used this footage because they didn't have anything better.

You can see also that the weapon is locked open (the bolt is back), which means that it's actually empty! When you chamber an AR with an empty mag installed, that's what happens - the bolt locks back, and the charging handle will loosely dangle backwards (unless you use the receiver clamp to hold it in place). Also, I don't think this M4 is a "replica" - you'll notice that it has no fencing around the magazine release, which means that the armorer slapped an M4 upper receiver on an M16 (SP1) lower receiver. If it were an airsoft M4, I'd expect it to have the correct lower receiver type (since I'm not aware of any airsoft manufacturer that makes M4s this way). In other words, it is a "franken" gun (common in movies), but not a replica. -MT2008 16:22, 6 January 2011 (UTC)

PSG1/FAL in season 1 episode 2.

This is probably a stupid question, but what is up with Mack and Hector's grips, or lack thereof, while using the PSG-1 and FAL?

S02 E16

When the team was in Hamburg doing the Counter Terrorist Games, Carlito got shot. In the hospital scene afterwards, Mack examined the bullet saying that it was 9mm hollow point round, standard military issue.

My question is, I thought hollow points were banned from military use due to some UN agreement. As far as I know, only the police can use hollow points. How wrong am I?

--Mikethepanda 20:02, 22 January 2012 (CST)

The Hague Convention of 1899, Declaration III, prohibits the use in warfare of bullets that easily expand or flatten in the body. This is often incorrectly believed to be prohibited in the Geneva Conventions, but it significantly predates those conventions, and is in fact a continuance of the St. Petersburg Declaration of 1868, which banned exploding projectiles of less than 400 grams, as well as weapons designed to aggravate injured soldiers or make their death inevitable. NATO members do not use small arms ammunition that is prohibited by the Hague Convention.

The United States military uses hollow-point bullets in some sniper rifles for their exceptional accuracy at long ranges, and believes that the hollow-point does not result in wounds significantly different from full metal jacket ammunition in practice.

But for a 9mm handgun round, none of the NATO member military units issue hollow points, so there is no "standard military issue" hollow point in any military. And looking at the episode, it didn't even look like a hollow point because it didn't expand. Excalibur01 23:15, 22 January 2012 (CST)

DA 38?

Anyone else think the DA 38 Jonas uses looks more like a High Standard Derringer (now made by American Derringer)? It seems to not have the fluting between the barrels like the DA 38 should have, and the barrels look much more like the width of the .22 that the High Standard fires rather than the .38 of the DA 38. --commando552 17:26, 16 February 2012 (CST)

High Standard Derringer - .22 Magnum

FN MAG mocked up as M240

In the Season 1 finale "The Wall" which I worked on the French Solder on the armored vehicle had a FN MAG58 with a later gas block fitted due to the actors always playing with the settings. The US Troops had actual M240's and not mocked up MAG58's. I don't know about season 2 on wards as they switched Property Masters and hence changed armories.--phoenixent 11:50, 16 April 2012 (CDT)

Also you can not tell the difference between them just by a missing heat shield. As the parts on both the 240 and 58 interchange for the most part you can make on look like the other with a few pieces. The one item that does not interchange is the butt stock assembly due to the MAG58 have a mechanical buffer and the M240 having a hydraulic buffer. You would have to change a couple of internal parts to get either one to work.--phoenixent 12:02, 16 April 2012 (CDT)