Talk:SIG-Sauer P220 pistol series

Additional Images

Screen-used SIG-Sauer Pistols

SIG-Sauer P220R - .45 ACP. This is the screen used gun carried and fired by Bruce Willis in Live Free or Die Hard.

World IMFDB Exclusive: Screen-used live firing SIG-Sauer P228. This weapon is verified as screen used from the film In the Line of Fire, and was carried and fired by Clint Eastwood in the film. IMFDB thanks The Golden Closet for providing this photo; also see their sales page for the weapon, here.

The SIG-Sauer P228 from In the Line of Fire (seen from the right).

A two-tone SIG-Sauer P228 (9x19mm) with Wilcox Industries UITC laser and barrel compensator, as used by Denzel Washington in the film Virtuosity. The weapon pictured here is the actual screen-used gun from the movie, one of four that were made for the film. One of these guns is re-used in the film Barb Wire.

World IMFDB Exclusive: Screen used SIG-Sauer P226 - 9x19mm. This blank firing weapon is verified as screen used by actor James Gandolfini in The Sopranos. This specific gun was the one fired onscreen when he, Paulie, and Silvio kill Pussy in Funhouse (2.13). More detailed images and purchasing information on this item can be found at The Golden Closet; see this link.

World IMFDB Exclusive: Screen used SIG-Sauer P228 pistol with non-functional prop silencer - 9x19mm. This live firing weapon is verified as screen used by actor Tony Sirico in The Sopranos. This gun was fired onscreen in the episode A Hit Is A Hit (1.10) during the scene where Paulie and other members of the Sopranos crew pose as furniture movers and ambush a drug cartel bagman and steal his money. After the hold up, Paulie shoots the man in the head at point blank range before making off with his drug money (IMFDB thanks The Golden Closet for providing the documentation on this gun. Contact them via their website for more detailed images and purchasing information on this item.)

Screen used SIG-Sauer P229 - 9x19mm. This blank firing weapon is verified as screen used from the film Salt. The gun has been modified to fire blank rounds only. This item is currently being sold by The Golden Closet; seethis link.

Two of the SIG-Sauer P229 pistols used in the film Mr. & Mrs. Smith - 9x19mm.

The actual, screen-used SIG-Sauer P229 used by Adam Baldwin on Chuck. This weapon was built and supplied to the production by Independent Studio Services. - 9x19mm.

Additional Variants

P220

File:P220 Japanese-ver 9mm Pistol.jpg

Minebea P9, Japanese licensed copy of the P220 - 9x19mm

P225

Umarex RWS C225 Target, a CO2 powered air pistol based on the SIG-Sauer P225 - .177 pellets

P226

A reverse Two-Tone SIG-Sauer P226 - 9x19mm (identical configuration to the gun from 2 Fast 2 Furious; this weapon was assembled and photographed specially for IMFDB by MoviePropMaster2008).

SIG-Sauer P226R fitted with a weaponlight - 9x19mm

The P226 above looks like an airsoft one to me. --cool-breeze 19:29, 2 June 2012 (CDT)

Yep, it is a Tokyo Marui GBB P226. Fitted with an M3 weaponlight. You can tell by the plasticky appearance and the hammer being too far into the rear of the pistol.----JazzBlackBelt-- 23:46, 2 June 2012 (CDT)

And the markings on the slide and the magazine ;) --cool-breeze 08:50, 3 June 2012 (CDT)

SIG-Sauer P226R Tactical Operations - 9x19mm

SIG-Sauer P226 Navy, older model with traditional trigger - 9x19mm

SIG-Sauer P226 Combat TB - 9x19m

Two-tone SIG-Sauer P226 - 9x19mm

SIG-Sauer 226 X5 Competition Model - 9x19mm

- Question: In what year did the rail become standard on the P226 so that it was just called P226 rather than P226R? Or is it still called P226R?--Suceress2 11:39, 3 April 2012 (CDT)

I remember them becoming available around 2004/2005, and then being standardized shortly after (probably by 2006 or so). SIG was still putting out non-rail P226s as recently as 2007 (which is when I first started looking to buy a P226), but they haven't been available since then. Also, the rail was introduced first on the P226 Tactical before it became a standard feature on all 226s and other SIGs. -MT2008 11:43, 3 April 2012 (CDT)

The last P226 without the rail was the P226 SAS (a dehorned DAK gun), which was discontinued in 2008. --commando552 11:53, 3 April 2012 (CDT)

The name 'P226R' isn't an actual model name, more of a way to distuinguish between rail and non rail SIGs. I don't think that the P226 was ever called a P226R officially by SIG, but I could be wrong.----JazzBlackBelt-- 16:02, 5 April 2012 (CDT)

Thank you for the responses! I checked the Sig-Sauer website and couldn't really find much about dates or useful information. I was hoping they would have a nice gallery of the various guns available. They do have quite a few pictures, but I don't think it comes anywhere near showing the full range of the product.--Suceress2 02:45, 10 April 2012 (CDT)

The SIG website is useful for identifying current products, but not so much for old ones. The discontinued page has some good info, but only goes back about the last 2-3 years. I know that the rail was introduced on the P226 Tactical, but I don't remember when that was exactly. I believe that was around 2004 or so, but the rails were not standardized on the P226 until early 2006. SIG offered various models without rails, such as the SAS and German, and I believe they offered something along the lines of Classic, but I might be confusing that with the German. I think that SIG should keep the non rail frame availiable as an option, as there are many people that would pay good money for one.----JazzBlackBelt-- 20:36, 10 April 2012 (CDT)

P228

SIG-Sauer P228 with stainless slide

P229

SIG-Sauer P229 with two-tone finish and Crimson Trace grips 9x19mm

SIG-Sauer P229R DAK - 9x19mm (also chambered for .40 S&W & .357 SIG)

Discussion

P226R

I know that the ones with rails are now the standard, and I have tried to find more information on the history of the P226. I've found a few sites that talk about the dates in which certain models were introduced and such, but I have yet to find anything that says when rails were first added to the P226. Does anyone know the approximate year when rails were added? Also, in what year did the rails become standard? I know that the trigger bar spring was completely changed in 1998, but what about the rails? Oh, and how can I tell a P226R from a P226 E2? Is there a way to tell by looking at the pictures? Someone speculated that the current model used by SSA Derek Morgan on Criminal Minds is an E2 but I have no idea how to tell.--Suceress2 01:17, 5 April 2012 (CDT)

I think the way it goes is that they had the P226R which became the standard P226, then they had an upgrade version of this called the E2 (Enhanced Ergonomics) which had a short reset trigger and screwless one piece prip plates, and now this has become the standard P226. The only difference between the E2 (discontinued) and the now standard P226 is that the E2 had an "E2" logo on the front of the slide. As for the Criminal Minds gun, see the talk page there for my opinion on that. --commando552 03:35, 5 April 2012 (CDT)

Thank you, Commando552. Do you have any idea of the approximate years when the changes with the rail happened? I looked all over and could not find the year when rails were added or when they became standard. Google searches just kept coming up with a bunch of unrelated stuff. --Suceress2 01:55, 8 April 2012 (CDT)

The name 'P226R' isn't an actual model name, more of a way to distuinguish between rail and non rail SIGs. I don't think that the P226 was ever called a P226R officially by SIG, but I could be wrong. As far as when the rail was first made standard, I believe that was 2007.----JazzBlackBelt-- 20:26, 8 April 2012 (CDT)

That actually was an official SIG designation and marketed as such during the period when standard and railed frames were available concurrently. I don't know exactly when the P226R was introduced, but think it was early-mid 2000's, with the rail becoming standard on the P226 (excluding anti-snag models) in 2005/2006. --commando552 07:06, 9 April 2012 (CDT)

Oh cool! Thank you for that information! I'm taking down notes on it. I'm now curious about the "anti-snag" models. Did the rails snag on things before being perfected?--Suceress2 02:48, 10 April 2012 (CDT)

SIG produces versions of their pistols known as SAS (Sig Anti-Snag) that have had all the corners and edges smoothed (also called "dehorning" in order to make the pistol less likely to get caught up on clothing. They uses to make an SAS model of the P226 which even after they introduced the rail as standard had the smooth frame, as the rail makes the pistol more likely to snag when used for concealed carry. They don't make the P226 SAS anymore (P226 is rather large for concealed carry afterall) but they do still make an SAS model of the P229 which has the smooth frame rather than the railed frame on the standard P229. --commando552 17:38, 10 April 2012 (CDT)

Finally found it, the rail was first introduced in 2004 with the standard frame being completely phased out in late 2007/early 2008.----JazzBlackBelt-- 14:16, 2 June 2012 (CDT)

P245

I like the P245. I bought one back in 2000. I owned both the P220 and the P245 for many years and I always found that I shot better with the P245. Eventually traded the P220, but I still have the P245. It's a nice little shooter. But truth be told I did purchase the eight round magazine from Sig. So I guess the P220 Compact just makes more sense. From a business aspect. --Jcordell 18:19, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

P228

I'm a bit confused about the P228. I thought that it has been discontinued for about 10 years. But that the Military uses them and I know that SIG recently came out with a P228R model. So my question is: Is it still being produced or not? -Gunman69 00:47, 1 August 2009 (UTC)

The P228R is a limited production run weapon. SIG had lots of surplus P228 slides, so they modified them to fit P229R frames (even though the 229 has always been a bit wider than the 228). As for the military's use of the P228, that's just because they bought so many of them in the 1990s that they still have lots in inventory. But the original, non-rail P228 (the version still seen in most movies today) has been out of production since 2000, when the P229 in 9mm was introduced. -MT2008

Ok thank you for clearing that up for me. Much appreciated! -Gunman69 05:54, 1 August 2009 (UTC)

P220

Is the P220 still manufactured in any caliber other than 45 ACP? I know the .38 super and .30 luger variants were discontinued but many nations have adopted the 9mm version for Police and Military use so it seems odd they would have discontinued it, yet SIG-Sauer's websight only lists it as comming in .45. -Anonymous

Everywhere I've looked for info says no. All modern (Railed I assume) P220's are strictly .45 ACP. Personally I like this line of thinking, a single stack 9x19mm seems pointless when you can get a P226, or a P229 and carry more rounds. --Crazycrankle 10:55, 18 December 2009 (UTC)

The Swiss military is a big user of the P-220 pistol. I wonder if they might have their own production line somewhere (as they did with the Luger) and just do not offer them commercially anymore. Also, SIG as the monolith that it once was is no more, having broken up into various other companies: the SIG-Sauer brand, now based out of Germany (and responsible for the P-220-5, P-226, P229, SIG-556, and all other continued SIG-Sauer firearms), and Swiss Arms, the manufacturer of the SIG-550 series firearms (the 550, 551, 552, and 553), and others. It is possible that the Swiss government procured the machinery after the demise of SIG to produce the P/75 (as I believe the Swiss military calls it) and is producing them for their own uses. This seems all the more likely when it is considered that an officer in the Swiss military is given the option of purchasing his own service sidearm once he leaves the military (and thus a finite stockpile might soon quickly expire). Just for information's sake, an enlisted person within the Swiss military is given the option of actually purchasing his own service weapon once he leaves the service (this is done by sending it back to the manufacturer were it is converted to a semi-automatic only rifle and then sent to the former soldier). The Chilean government had its own license to produce these domestcally through FAMAE (according to Ian Hogg) though this seems to have expired and FAMAE now produces a variant of the CZ-75 and the Japanese government also license produced the design at one point (perhaps through Howa Industries), although this too seems to have expired, and this is once again according to Mr. Hogg. Just some potential explanations.SAWGunner89 15:53, 17 February 2010 (UTC)

P6 hammer notch

As I actually own a P6, I, as I am sure many other P6 owners have, became curious of and susequently investigated the notch in the P6's hammer. I have heard various reasons for the P6 hammer's notch, including the theory that it was meant to indicate that the gun was dropped or was meant to prevent an accidental firing if it was indeed dropped. Hoever, I have come across another explanation that to me seems a bit more plausible, that it was meant to stick the loop of a retaining holster into, thereby securing the gun into the holster and preventing a drop. To me this seems to be a more potential explanation as who would want to replace a hammer each time the weapon was dropped, espiecially a SIG (not the cheapest of all firearms) and espiecially a model that SIG discontinued quite some time ago. Even finding extra (affordable) magazines for a P-225/P6 is an ordeal, so why would you try and replace a hammer every time somebody might actually drop it. I don't know, but it just does seem the best explanation to me. Also, I do not speak German, so there might be a resource out there that that I cannot utilize that expressly states the reasons for this peculiarity. Once again, just another potential explanation, what do you guys think?SAWGunner89 15:36, 17 February 2010 (UTC)

Your picture of a SIG-Sauer P228

Your main picture of a SIG-Sauer P228 looks more like a airsoftversion than a real one. The hammer has a slightly different shape than a real P228.

I don't think it's an airsoft weapon. It was photographed for us by MoviePropMaster2008, who is a movie armorer, so that is a real weapon converted to blank-fire, from his company's inventory. However, he mentioned to me that this particular gun was dropped during a movie shoot and badly damaged, so it had a whole bunch of repairs. He is trying to find a P228 in better condition that he can photograph (preferably, one that was used in a big movie). -MT2008 16:06, 15 May 2010 (UTC)

Just wondering?

Why do many enthusisests and military forces(Navy seals,SAS,ect) perfer this gun? Is it reliability? the different calibers?

Its exceptionally well made and accurate right out of the box, they're durable, there are a variety of options from cosmetic to alternate materials to alternate barrels and rail systems, and there are a wide variety of calibers to choose from. They're solidly built, reliable, and effective weapon platforms. The only real issue is price but if you're buying something that you want to be able to defend yourself with...any time...in any corner of the world.... then the P22# series is a prime choice. -Double Agent M

Uhm,I'm just wondering.What is that small thing, which is near safe button? Littlesoldier1 12:21, 4 January 2012 (CST)

Gonna have to be more specific. Are you talking about the magazine release or the slide release? or are you talking about the takedown lever? Bristow8411 15:50, 18 January 2012 (CST)

And whats the safe button? --Zackmann08 16:04, 18 January 2012 (CST)

Modern Sigs do not have an external safety. The controls are from the front as follows: Take down lever, hammer decocker for da/sa models (hole if DAK model), and slide release. Peejn8r

Generally true, but there are a few single action only variants of the P220 along with the P226 X-Five that have no decocker, and a frame mounted safety behind the slide release. --commando552 12:19, 19 January 2012 (CST)

Confirmation

I feel stupid for asking this but just to make sure, SIG-Sauer P220 series guns have decockers but no manual safeties right? -Anonymous

There are some SIG 220 series that come with manual safeties. The P220SAO comes to mind.-Ranger01 04:05, 25 September 2010 (UTC)

And I assume the DAK versions don't have decockers. I should have specified that I was wondering about the DA/SA variants. -Anonymous

Ah, there are no manual safeties on non SAO SIGs.-Ranger01 05:42, 25 September 2010 (UTC)

Alright, thank you. -Anonymous

No problemo.

P228 vs. 229

What are the differences between the SIG P228 and P229 other than the fact that the 229 comes in .40 S&W and .357 SIG? -Anonymous

The P226 and P228 were originally manufactured using a stamped-steel slide on an aluminum alloy frame. The P229 consists of a CNC-milled stainless steel slide, typically colored black with a Nitron finish. The P229's milled steel slide was introduced to handle the higher slide velocities created by the .357 SIG and .40 S&W loads, which the stamped slide of the P228 could not handle without the use of a much stiffer recoil spring.

So stamped vs. milled slide. Alright, thanks. -Anonymous

Quick question about SIGs in films and television

I understand why SIGs are used by the military, police and weapons enthusiasts but I'm just wondering why they turn up so much in films and TV. Are they easy to convert to blanks and thus is the main go-to guns for armorers or is it SIG doing some covert advertising? I remember in the late 90s to early 00s that Glock had an equivalent presence in film and television. It's nice to see SIGs in action but can't they use a wider range of brands? - GunEnthusiast

In movies and TV, SIGs typically are typically shown in the hands of either FBI Agents (which actually issued them in real life) or military Special Forces (many of which also use them frequently). I would imagine that they are common for this reason alone - there are a lot of movies about elite units and federal agents.

I don't think it has anything to do with them being easy to convert to blanks, because SIGs have a covered barrel whose lock-up at ejection port needs to be milled down in order for blanks to function reliably (unlike Berettas, which have a reputation for ease of blank conversion due to their open-top slides). -MT2008 20:05, 22 December 2010 (UTC)

SIG-Sauer model used in recent Mythbusters

I have a short question, in most recent episode of Mythbusters, the trio team testes a myth from Kiss The Girls movie - whether a gun can ignite a room full of gas. They used .44 Magnum, 3rd Gen Glock 17 9x19mm (if I ID'd it correctly) and a SIG-Sauer. The question is what model of SIG-Sauer was used, I'm not sure if it was P239 9x19mm? Also on a side note, they tend to mix the footage of Glock and SIG and also Tory calls the SIG a Glock... (wlw @ 27.11.2010)

SEALS

Does anyone know why the Navy SEALS chose the SIG 226 for their handgun of choice, what handgun it replaced, and why it was chosen over that handgun?--MarineCorps1 02:50, 11 January 2011 (UTC)

When the US held pistol trial to replace the 1911 in the 80's, the final two were the m9 and the P226. The M9 won based on cost alone. The SEALS originally used the M9, but after several catastrophic failures they switched to the runner-up, the 226. That was in the 80's, and they are still using it. Says a lot for SIG... I don't know what the SEALS used before, but I would assume it's some 1911 variant. ----JazzBlackBelt-- 04:19, 11 January 2011 (UTC)

The Navy SEALS also used the Heckler & Koch Mark 23 for a while before switching to the SiG-Sauer P226. Reason being? The H&K Mk 23 was deemed to be a bit of a piece of shit. With a heavy trigger pull and a clunky, unwieldy feel and ability to use, the SEALS kicked that pistol to the curb pretty quick. --ThatoneguyJosh 20:53, 4 June 2011 (CDT)

Form what I heard from people who actually own Mark 23s the trigger pull is better than the USP. :/ I would own a Mark 23 but that's just me, I like big, heavy (actually the Mark 23 only weighs as much as a M1911 handgun), over-engineered weapons that can survive a nuclear explosion. :P - Mr. Wolf 20:15, 5 June 2011 (CDT)

What kind of catastrophic failures was the M9 going through and why didn't other branches replace the M9 with the SIG aside from price?--MarineCorps1 17:28, 11 January 2011 (UTC)

The Slides had a tendency to break; officially as a result of the SEALs using hotter rounds than the weapon was rated for.The Wierd It 18:15, 11 January 2011 (UTC)

The other branches didn't feel the need to replace the M9, probably because the SEALS have higher standards for their sidearms. Also, the SIGs were extremely durable, you could take them through saltwater, drag them through sand, even pound it with a jackhammer and they would still fire. The other branches didn't use their sidearms nearly as much as the SEALS. Presently the Coast Guard is using the SIG-Sauer P229, and the actual agency NCIS (naval criminal investigative service, pretty much cops for the navy and marines) use P229s as well. Also, I don't know where you live, but if u live in america go on youtube and search for "nutnfancy p226 part 1" its the first one that shows up. He talks about the history of the P226 and its use with the SEALS.----JazzBlackBelt-- 21:04, 11 January 2011 (UTC)

The SIG P229 is a fine weapon, from my experiance its the best shooting handgun for me. Wonder if the P220 works aswell because I want one.--FIVETWOSEVEN 03:36, 12 January 2011 (UTC)

New P226

Has anyone seen the new production line SIG P226s? What do you guys think of the new grips? They've got the same grips that the E2 has now. I like them but I will miss the old P226 grips. --cool-breeze 15:34, 7 June 2011 (CDT)

I honestly think that I am the only one who does not like them. I like how they try to appeal to smaller-handed shooters, but I think they should have kept the "classic" style availiable as well. I handled a classic P226 with the E2 grips installed, and it just didn't feel right to me. They did this to the P229 (my favorite gun) and changed the slide style as well. I will miss the classic grips. (It feels so weird calling the SIGs I know and love the classic version)----JazzBlackBelt-- 02:46, 12 June 2011 (CDT)

Being a Brit the closest I get to handling a real gun are my airsoft ones, but if I manage to move to America (which is one of my lifes goals) I'd like to get some real guns. One of them is a SIG Sauer P226 but I prefer the classic unrailed frame. I wish SIG still produced those for sale as well. --cool-breeze 04:35, 12 June 2011 (CDT)

You can still get the old grips for SIGs. They sell them on their website, and i'm sure that various other distributors bought ass-loads of them to sell. The new grips give more options to a wider range of shooters. --TheDon 09:56, 25 July 2011 (CDT)

I've been thinking about ordering a pair for a while. Even though I can get my hand around my 226's grip just fine (the smaller circumference doesn't matter much to me), I've never liked the texture of the previous generation grips. The E2 grip texture is designed to be a lot like the grips on the very earliest P226s (the checker-pattern grips).

Also, SIG just introduced the "P226 German", which is a rail frame P226 that has the German-manufactured stamped slide of the oldest model P226s. I might have to get one some day - the old stamped slides are WAY superior to the milled slides that have been standard since the late-90s. -MT2008 10:27, 25 July 2011 (CDT)

When I saw the "P226 German" on their website I was hoping it would be a classic P226 without a rail but it has the rail. I don't understand why they don't still produce unrailed framed P226s. --cool-breeze 12:55, 25 July 2011 (CDT)

I must admit that I thought the same thing when I saw the German on their site. And i'm sure many other people were just as disappointed when they saw the rail... honestly, I can see where they could be useful, but aesthetically I prefer SIGs without rails. Like the P229 SAS, for instance. --TheDon 22:40, 25 July 2011 (CDT)

They could be useful but SIGs look so much better without them. And there's nothing wrong with the Harries technique in my opinion if you need a flash light. --cool-breeze 06:11, 26 July 2011 (CDT)

1. The SAS pretty much covers the rail-less Sigs. 2. As I own a 229(R) the rail isnt bad for texture. Really causes no problems holstering. If you dont like the look I dont know what to tell you. Having the rail standard is a good idea because it gives you the OPTION to put a light or laser on your gun. 3. Carrying a light in your off hand will work but putting the light on your gun is a much sturdier option letting you still have full control of your firearm with both hands and the added benefit of the light. Peejn8r

I agree with you on all of these points. We were speaking purely of the aesthetic value of the rails. I'm sure some some people like the looks of them, and personally don't think they're THAT bad. I just feel that SIGs, especially those with the new one piece, snap on grips, look much better without them. --TheDon 22:07, 9 February 2012 (CST)

P239 Slide

As far as I can tell, there are two different slide designs for the P239, the first being the one similar to the P228 that is seen on the gun images for this page, but then you also have a design similar to the P229 that can be seen on the pages for Chuck and Nikita (2010) for example. Does this indicate different manufacture date, or does the slide change with calibre? --commando552 02:23, 7 October 2011 (CDT)

I think the slide changes as to whether its a 9mm or 40 cal. The reason why the 228 was discontinued in favor of the 229 was that they couldn't make the 228 strong enough to take 40 cal and the 'marketplace' expected any 9mm to be available in .40 SW as well. So I believe the frame can take the stresses of both 9mm and 40 cal and (obviously) the barrel and slides are different. :) Of course, now I expect someone out of the blue to completely prove me wrong .... sigh....MoviePropMaster2008 03:52, 7 October 2011 (CDT)

I believe that is right, just remember that the slides are reversed in the 239 (half serration = 9mm, full serration = 40SW or 357SIG) compared to the 228/229. Also the frame of the 228 is slightly smaller than that of the 229, and old model 229's in 9mm have a slightly smaller frame than those in 40SW, though, if I understand it right, the new model 229's (full cocking serration) use the same frame for both 9mm and 40SW. The size does not make that big of a difference unless you try to put E2 grips onto a 228, where the size difference will prevent them from fitting (unless you got a late model 228 that used 229 frames). Hope that helped rather than confused. Dover500 07:42, 7 October 2011 (CDT)

Thanks, that helps. Assumed it was calibres as the SIG website has current pics of both types, but assumed it was the same way round as P228/P229 and wondered why the most common version in TV is .40 rather than 9mm. Second part has thrown me though, as didn't realise that P229s now had full height serrations. Is there anyway (from a distance without examining frame thickness) to tell the difference between a current P229 and a P228R? --commando552 09:02, 7 October 2011 (CDT)

The new P229's have the E2 grip which is smaller than the old grip, lack grip screws, and are one piece as opposed to the older 2 piece model. But since the P228R uses a P229 frame and E2 grips can be attached to older P229 frames, and the new P229's can still have the old grip style swapped in if the user so desires, there is no real way without holding it or seeing the stamp on the slide to know for sure.Dover500 10:25, 7 October 2011 (CDT)

The extractor on the new P229 is much larger than before.----JazzBlackBelt-- 16:16, 10 October 2011 (CDT)

Broken links

Although more correct, when --JazzBlackBelt-- put "-Sauer" into the titles for the different guns it now means that all of the redirects, like SIG-Sauer P226, don't go to the correct section anymore, along with any links that are in articles (such as [[SIG-Sauer P220 pistol series#SIG P226|SIG-Sauer P226]]) that lead to a particular section. I take it there is no way to fix the second problem short of going through every single article and changing it is there? Also, why do we put the dash in SIG-Sauer, as far as I can tell the actual company name is either SIG SAUER, or SIG Sauer. --commando552 07:26, 17 January 2012 (CST)

You are right about the title, they never refer to themselves as "SIG-Sauer" but "SIG Sauer". And, right again, theres no way to fix the redirect problem :( --bozitojugg3rn4ut 14:29, 17 January 2012 (CST)

I thought that when SIG joined up with Sauer they put a hyphen between their names. Also, the little thing at the top of the page says that we should put a hyphen.----JazzBlackBelt-- 21:53, 17 January 2012 (CST)

You could always just edit the redirects... Go to the SIG-Sauer P226 page and change where it redirects... I've already done it for the P226 (try the link and see for yourself). Shouldn't be that difficult. --Zackmann08 14:51, 17 January 2012 (CST)

commando552 and I were not talking about the [[SIG-Sauer P226]] redirect, but the pages like The Negotiator or XXX where the longer [[SIG-Sauer P220 pistol series#SIG P226|SIG-Sauer P226]] hyperlink is used. Those now redirect to the top of the page instead of the P226's section. And the only way to fix them is to change them on every page that uses this hyperlink. --bozitojugg3rn4ut 15:47, 17 January 2012 (CST)

What he said. I know the first problem is fixable like you said, was going to edit the redirects earlier but didn't in case the name changed again. --commando552 16:43, 17 January 2012 (CST)

My bad. Though I will say that this is a perfect reason why using this style: [[SIG-Sauer P220 pistol series#SIG P226|SIG-Sauer P226]] is a bad idea (not saying it was your guys fault or anything, just saying that its a good reason to avoid that type of coding). --Zackmann08 19:55, 17 January 2012 (CST)

Wow, my bad guys, I didn't know it would jack up all the redirects. What if we reverted the page back, but added a note at the top of the page stating that the proper name has the Sauer in it?----JazzBlackBelt-- 21:53, 17 January 2012 (CST)

We should strive to be as correct as possible. If it's right, it's right. I'm willing to put in the legwork. --Funkychinaman 22:00, 17 January 2012 (CST)

P239 & P245

Considering the name of this page is P220 pistol series shouldn't these guns be on their own page? Thoughts? --Zackmann08 20:22, 9 February 2012 (CST)

Both the P239 and P245 belong to the P220 line. The P245 is a compact P220 that was replaced by the P220 carry, and the P239 is a compact, single-stack pistol that uses the P220 configuration.----JazzBlackBelt-- 22:16, 9 February 2012 (CST)

Gotcha. Thanx! --Zackmann08 00:18, 10 February 2012 (CST)

Splitting up this page

I wanted to get some feed back on the idea of splitting up this page. I completely understand why the page is all together. These guns are all based on the same frame, etc. That being said, each model has its own variants. The P226 for example has at least 10+ variants, P226 Tactical, P226 X-Five, P226 Navy, etc. etc. It might be nicer to have each of these guns with their own page.

IF that were to happen this page could be converted into a disambiguation page that list's all the guns that are members of the series. Also, each individual page could mention that the gun is part of a larger series and could have a "See Also". Just food for thought... I would love to hear what people think. --Zackmann08 02:50, 11 February 2012 (CST)

I'm all for it, as there are some variants that appear in film/TV and we don't even have a picture of them. The downside to splitting this page up is that all the links for the SIG line will be broken, unless there is some all-magical admin power I don't know about.----JazzBlackBelt-- 21:56, 20 March 2012 (CDT)

P228 Picture

I believe that this was mentioned before, but the picture of the P228 looks odd. It bears many resemblances to my UHC Spring Airsoft P228, including the trigger, hammer, trigger pin placement, and even warps in the slide and frame. Even if the picture is not an airsoft replica, it does not do the P228 justice. I know how much work it is to find a good P228 to photograph, and then even more work getting the photo right. The picture now looks oddly misshapen, especially around the hammer and trigger guard. If you compare it to the picture of the two-tone P228 on this talk page, the differences are visible ----JazzBlackBelt-- 22:35, 23 March 2012 (CDT)

It's not an airsoft P228, I don't think. It has the exposed top of the barrel milled down, which is part of the blank-fire conversion process for SIGs (and many other handguns). This means that it's a blank-adapted movie gun. It's MPM2008's gun and his picture, so you can ask him how it ended up looking the way it did. He did tell me a while ago that he would look for another 228 to photograph, but he hasn't gotten around to it yet. -MT2008 23:52, 3 April 2012 (CDT)

P226 vs. HK USP

I know,that SIG's are very reliable pistols.But I also have read about USP stress test,where it was frozen and saltwatered and all other heavy conditions. So I wonder,which of these 2 pistols is more reliable?

Not reliability per se, but I would say that a USP is more durable than a P226. The P226 uses an alloy frame (on most models) as opposed to the USP which has a polymer frame with steel inserts. The steel inserts are more resilient than the alloy frame which will wear out quicker and need replacing sooner (probably after somewhere in the range of 50,000 - 100,000 shots so is still pretty far off in the future).--commando552 12:59, 3 April 2012 (CDT)

Reliability and durability are two different things. The SIG wins reliability hands down, as there are little to no instances of them jamming, even with crappy ammo. The USP is also very good, but I have heard of more jams in them. Not many, but still a few more than the SIG. As the USP is a polymer framed gun, it has a higher chance of 'KBing' (kaboom) where parts of the gun (usually the frame) crack, or even fully break in two two while shooting. Glocks in .40 also do this a lot. As far as durability, the two guns are about equal. The SIG has been dragged through sand, saltwater, driven over by a bulldozer, jackhammered, and then frozen in a block of ice and dropped out of a helicopter onto concrete (and still fired), so I'd say that's a pretty durable pistol.----JazzBlackBelt-- 22:48, 3 April 2012 (CDT)

Wow! Is there any link for that stress-test? At least as a article? Couldn't find it yet. Littlesoldier1 10:03, 4 April 2012 (CDT) UPD: I,found it! Good! This gun is immortal! Really impressed. Littlesoldier1 10:07, 4 April 2012 (CDT)

New P229

Since the new version has the standard slide shape, it's basically both the P228 and P229 at the same time, isn't it? A P228 with the P229's slightly shorter slide length. Alex T Snow 21:36, 22 June 2012 (CDT)

It also has an external extractor and has the E2 grips (although grips are changeable so not a reliable indicator). --commando552 04:58, 23 June 2012 (CDT)

By P228, I assume you are talking about the P228R. Appearance wise they are similar, but internally they are not. As commando mentioned the external extractor is new, but the new P229 also features the short reset trigger system (which has been reported to fit into a P228, but it isn't officially stated by SIG). The new P229 also uses the .40S&W frame for all calibers (even 9mm). This allows two extra rounds in the 9mm magazine. Because of the two extra rounds, the new 9mm P229 mags don't fit in a P229R or P228.----JazzBlackBelt-- 18:41, 24 June 2012 (CDT)

The last models of the P228 (I think SIG dropped the R like with the P226, but we call it the P228R on this site to distinguish it from the earlier non railed models) had the SRT. The P228R that MPM2008 has photographed on the main page has the SRT. --commando552 18:59, 24 June 2012 (CDT)

It definitely has a short trigger, but there is no way to tell if it has a short reset trigger. I have read about people who fit the short reset into P228's and P225's, so it is definitely a possibility.----JazzBlackBelt-- 20:33, 24 June 2012 (CDT)

What about naming for this model? Calling it a "New P229" on the site is a bit sloppy IMO, but simply calling it a P229 or a P229R confuses it with the older two models. I'm thinking we start calling it a "P229R-1", because that is how SIG's product numbers refer to it as opposed to the old model. Plus a lot of holster companies list a P229R and a P229R-1, which is the old and new model of P229. But if "New P229" works with everyone else, we won't change it.----JazzBlackBelt-- 23:45, 31 August 2012 (CDT)

SL Sport II

Does it have the same magazine capacity as the regular P226? - User: 2wingo