Talk:Payback

I thought you were getting better on extreme amounts of screencaps

Hey MPM, Gunmaster did a good job with the page. Most of the screencaps have quite good amount of commentary on the gun handling.-Oliveira 21:24, 16 June 2009 (UTC)

Yeah, I apoligize for the large amount of screencaps but I couldn't pass up the commentary. - Gunmaster45

Model 27 vs. Model 29

Smith & Wesson Model 27 Snub nosed revolver with 3.5" barrel - .357 magnum.Note the shorter cylinder and the very visible forcing cone.Also note the tapered barrel

Smith & Wesson Model 29 with 4" barrel.Note the larger cylinder and the heavy bull barrel.

File:SmithWessonModel28-2.jpg

S&W Model 28 Highway Patrolman with 4" bl.Note the dull blue finish

The pawn shop owner hands Porter a Smith & Wesson Model 29 from off the rack. His lack of gun safety is pretty obvious as he hands him the gun with the hammer cocked and his finger on the trigger.Edit: Note the brighter blue finish, the heavier barrel and the large cylinder that fills the frame.

Smith & Wesson Model 28 topstrap

Smith & Wesson Model 27 topstrap. Note the checkering.

Notice the difference between the cylinders. The forcing cone is very visible on the Model 27. The cylinder is shorter on the Model 27 and the barrel has a distinct taper on the 27. It does appear that Gibson is using a Model 27 when he is shooting up into the Asian gang's vehicle but it's a Model 29 at the beginning of the movie.Now it could be argued that he's using a Model 28 since the 28 does have the plain top strap like the Model 29. But the Modell 28 is just a plain jane version of the Model 27 with a matte blue finish. All the other previously described features still apply.The revolver used by Porter (at least in the beginning) has a bright blue glossy finish. Another mark of the earlier Model 29 revolver. --Jcordell 20:11, 1 August 2009 (UTC)

In this shot, note the diameter of the cylinder and bore. This is .357 without a doubt. So maybe both were used? This shot and the one in the hotel (where you can see hollowpoins) are my defenders on the ID. - Gunmaster45

Porter shoots Val in Rosie's (Maria Bello) house.

I agree. But look at this screencap. That's a 44 diameter bore and a heavy bull barrel. No taper. Lets look at this another way. When he surpises the detectives he takes their revolvers. Is that Model 27 the revolver that he takes from Bill Duke's character? Does he pick up the Model 27/28 later on after he dumps the 29? --Jcordell 01:50, 9 August 2009 (UTC)

Model 27 vs. model 28

You're right. These two revolvers are pratical identical except for finish and the mark "Highway Patrolman" on the right side of the M28. But I think that the movie gun is an M27. - Charly Driver

I belive that it's a Model 27/28 that Gibson is using when he's shooting up into the carload of Asian gangbangers. The cylinders looks shorter and the barrel appears to have a distinctive taper. But it's a Model 29 that he buys from the pawnshop at the beginning of the movie. --Jcordell 18:22, 4 August 2009 (UTC)

I agree with the M29 (I built the first version of the complete page I had chosen this revolver), I was talking of the gun scene of the Chinese gunfight. - Charly Driver

Then you and I are on the same sheet of music. Why don't you create another listing for the Model 27 for the sequence when Porter is shooting it out with the Asians? Seems only right that you should do it since you started the page. --Jcordell 18:33, 4 August 2009 (UTC)

I ask sorry but I don't understand English very well, what do you mean to create another listing? - Charly Driver

You have a category for the Model 29 in which there are screencaps of the Model 29 being used. You should go ahead and make another category or heading showing the Model 27/28 being used. That way the Model 27 will be on the Table of Contents.--Jcordell 00:11, 5 August 2009 (UTC)

S&W Model 27 with 4".

S&W Model 28 Highway Patrolman with 4" bl.

Background Check at pawn shop

this movie is loosely based on a book set in 1967, before the Gun Control Act of 1968. Therefore there is no background check and very little if any paperwork. Also there are some "shady" pawn shops that will sell a firearm with no paperwork because they know the weapon is hot or has a history. However this leads to the idea that the Beretta 92FS Val uses can't be used then since it wasn't manufactured at that time. He would be using a Beretta 951.

Headshot using pillow

I don't believe the pillow is to muffle the shot, but more to keep from getting splattered with blood and brains. I've done something similar when putting down hogs at my uncles farm, we'd throw a burlap bag over it before shooting it to keep from getting blood on our clothes.

Comments

I think this article has improved greatly following the removal of many of the snarky comments about gun handling mistakes in the film. Just in case anyone was planning to replace them I though I'd post a statement by MoviePropMaster concerning this issue:

I recently had the unpleasant experience of having some of the performers being insulted in some of our movie pages see what some of the IMFDB members write. there are some pretty condescending remarks regarding horrible grips, gun stance, bad gun discipline and blinking while shooting. I'm trying to promote the website and it's embarrassing to see actors getting insulted for pretty trivial reasons. What are your thoughts regarding this?

See below:

I'm asking all members to stop with the sarcastic comments in the screencap descriptions. Too many members feel it's funny to be extremely sarcastic about actor's shooting stance, their blinking, their pistol grips. Only if it's so over the top as for the average person to notice, then don't keep on harping on it. Most actors are given only a bare amount of time to train, if at all. Many times the editor picks the worst take for pistol grip, but best take for other reasons like acting. Also much of the blame falls on the director. Some directors don't want to be bothered trying to train the actors and don't allow us armorers to even give them more training than the minimum safety training. People in the industry check out this website, and some think we're a bunch of obnoxious kids. I am not happy when people in 'the biz' look at the site and scoff at the snarky remarks. Some of them are the actual actors being insulted. We can always put in criticism, but IMFDB members going forward going to criticize a film, should try to do so in a scholarly manner or not at all. Thanks for your cooperation MoviePropMaster2008 05:52, 4 October 2009 (UTC)

This particular article previously had derogatory comments accompanying nearly every screencap and the improvement since has been remarkable. -Anonymous

Back to the revolver controversy.....

I noticed while looking around that you guys were uncertain about which Smiths were used in the movie. First of all, a Model 27/28 was definitely used in a handful of shots, as you can clearly see the barrel taper. Second, judging by cylinder size, I think that every instance of a Smith without a taper (and those fancy wood finger groove grips) is a Model 19, not a Model 29. The gun just looks a bit to small to be an N Frame in the non-tapered pictures.