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Talk:PPSh-41
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Discussion
how many times must I to write this PPS 43 not PPSh ,it was build by Sudaiev not Shpagin.
Does the page look more organized now?
Move the KP-31 and the PPD on another page
I think that it's better move the description of the finnish KP-31 and the soviet PPD on page apart: The mechanical sistem of the submashingun are somewhat different from the Shpagin/Sudaiev system. However may be correct put the KP-31 and the PPD togeder, becous the PPD is a direct derivation of the finnish s.m.g. - Lone Soldier 10-28-2009 12:17
The PPS deserves it's own page. It's a completely different weapon. The only thing it has in common with the PPSh is the ammo. It can't even share mags. And tthe PPD can go on the MP-28 page. (Or just lump the MP18, MP28, Lanchester and PPD all on one page.) --funkychinaman 17:40, 29 December 2010 (UTC)
- I absolutely agree. PPD and PPS is completely independent weapon that has nothing to do with the PPSh, except cartridge. They deserve their own pages. You also need to mention that the stick magazines used in the PPSh only since 1944, not 1942, as written here. In 1942, PPSh has changed only sight, but not the magazine. Flexo 10:55, 19 November 2011 (CST)
- I think that it would be better to create their own pages for just all SMGs from this page: Suomi KP/-31, PPD-40 (with PPD-34), PPSh-41 (with K-50M), PPS-43 (with PPS-42, m/44, wz/1943/52 and Dux M53). Although they have much common, these are different enough weapon.
- And sorry, Flexo, but you are wrong: stick magazines for PPSh were used since 1942 (the resolution of State Comitee for Defence dated Feb.12 1942). Greg-Z 11:26, 19 November 2011 (CST)
- I speak not about when the GKO (SCD) resolution has been written, but about when these magazines have appeared in field army. I didn't see any photo denying my words. At least even in 1943 (for example during Kursk fight) these magazines can't be seen (I am assured, you know that photos of Red Army are rather easy for dating if you know dates of change of a uniform and rules of carrying of awards). Flexo 14:11, 19 November 2011 (CST)
- I will examine my collection of wartime photos. As far as I remember there were photos of Red Army soldiers with PPShs with stick magazines during Stalingrad battle. And quick search in internet give this photo. It is battle for Caucasus mountains, early 1943. Greg-Z 01:10, 20 November 2011 (CST)
- It is a pity to me, but this photo it is impossible precisely 1943. In this photo we see mountains, the person in a mountain overalls and tropical hat (I had same when I served in KGB troops in 1987) and PPSh-41. Therefore I can tell that it, for example, Central Asia, Pamir, KGB frontier troops, 1950. Now try to deny my words :-)) Flexo 03:03, 20 November 2011 (CST)
- I wait for a photo of Stalingrad battle Flexo 03:03, 20 November 2011 (CST)
- OK, it's your right not to trust. :) I'll try to get a 100% proof. Greg-Z 09:19, 20 November 2011 (CST)
- This photo is attributed: "Stalingrad. Dom Pavlova (Pavlov's building). 1942". Of course drum magasines were seen far more often in this period but I think they were used from late 1942.
- By the way, "Soviet firearms" by D.Bolotyn (3rd Edition, 1990, p.154) says that in Nov.1943 a new model of stick magazine was designed. It was made of 1 mm thick steel instead of 0.5 mm because the previous model proved itself not very good. So this stick magasine had to be used at least in 1943 in order to prove it somehow, right? Greg-Z 10:21, 20 November 2011 (CST)
- My friend, do you believe what in the "Pavlov's building" there was a photographer? Ahahah... This photo can be carried absolutely to any period of War. ...Two soldiers shoot in ruins... For example it is storm of Kenigsberg? Why not? ...I will believe that it is 1942 only if I see signs of a military rank on a collars.
- As to the BolotIn's book - probably new magazines were tested in 1943, but in photos, unfortunately, they can't be seen. Flexo 13:25, 20 November 2011 (CST)
- My friend, do you believe what in the "Pavlov's building" there was a photographer? Ahahah... This photo can be carried absolutely to any period of War. ...Two soldiers shoot in ruins... For example it is storm of Kenigsberg? Why not? ...I will believe that it is 1942 only if I see signs of a military rank on a collars.
- I wait for a photo of Stalingrad battle Flexo 03:03, 20 November 2011 (CST)
- It is a pity to me, but this photo it is impossible precisely 1943. In this photo we see mountains, the person in a mountain overalls and tropical hat (I had same when I served in KGB troops in 1987) and PPSh-41. Therefore I can tell that it, for example, Central Asia, Pamir, KGB frontier troops, 1950. Now try to deny my words :-)) Flexo 03:03, 20 November 2011 (CST)
- I will examine my collection of wartime photos. As far as I remember there were photos of Red Army soldiers with PPShs with stick magazines during Stalingrad battle. And quick search in internet give this photo. It is battle for Caucasus mountains, early 1943. Greg-Z 01:10, 20 November 2011 (CST)
- I speak not about when the GKO (SCD) resolution has been written, but about when these magazines have appeared in field army. I didn't see any photo denying my words. At least even in 1943 (for example during Kursk fight) these magazines can't be seen (I am assured, you know that photos of Red Army are rather easy for dating if you know dates of change of a uniform and rules of carrying of awards). Flexo 14:11, 19 November 2011 (CST)
- I absolutely agree. PPD and PPS is completely independent weapon that has nothing to do with the PPSh, except cartridge. They deserve their own pages. You also need to mention that the stick magazines used in the PPSh only since 1944, not 1942, as written here. In 1942, PPSh has changed only sight, but not the magazine. Flexo 10:55, 19 November 2011 (CST)
I think the Finnish sub-machine gun deserves it's own page. Or dump it with the MP18 page, too. After all, it was the gun the Soviets based their PPD and PPSh. Or at least it should be on top of the page.
- Ps. Yes, some PPSh's were converted to 9x19mm Parabellum, especially by the Finnish Army. They also sometimes simply used them as they were. It would have been stupid not to, since the Finns were sometimes so deep in their forests that Parabellum ammo would run out. Plus, it would have to be preserved for the KP/-31's. --Warejaws 15:21, 6 January 2011 (UTC)
This was discussed in the forum --Funkychinaman 13:47, 20 November 2011 (CST)
Question
Hi. I made a page for Cryostasis a few days ago. The PPSh-41 in it strangely keeps firing even when the trigger is released. (It fires about 4-5 rounds.) I read somewhere that this happens with the real PPSh too. Could anyone confirm this? If it is true, then I would include it on the game's page and also this could be some really realistic modeling/programing never seen before. Thank you. bozitojugg3rn4ut 14:49, 15 March 2011 (CDT)
K-50M
Is the K-50M really a Vietnamese copy, it looks nothing like it.--Gunner5
Suomi
I just want to confirm: the Suomi is only chambered in 9mm Para and nothing else? Not 7.62mm Tok? --Funkychinaman 11:56, 5 July 2012 (CDT)
- According to Jaegerplatoon.net, there was Suomi M/26 in 7.65x21 (or in 7.65x17, in different source). But this model looked different from M/31 and was produced in very limited numbers. "Year 1959 the remaining 57 Suomi M/26 were sold to Interarmco and shipped abroad year 1960." (http://www.jaegerplatoon.net/MACHINEPISTOLS1.htm). Finnish M/31 itself was only 9x19. Swedish Husqvarna M/37 copy of Suomi was in 9x20 Browning Long; M/37-41 and later models were in 9x19. Danish and Swiss versions were in 9x19. There is a rumor that there existed a Soviet copy of Suomi in 7.62x25 but I have not seen anything about such model in Russian sources, so it's a question. Greg-Z 12:39, 5 July 2012 (CDT)
- The screencap below has bottlenecked shell casings coming out of a Suomi. I have a feeling they're just CGI shell casings, but I just want to be sure. Thanks. --Funkychinaman 13:02, 5 July 2012 (CDT)
