Talk:Generation Kill

Discussion

In the book, evan wright mentions benelli shotguns being used by officers

Sure but in the series, we don't see any. Did see a shotgun carried by the Iraqi translator.

There is a Major in the series who carries a shotgun with him (Nate Fick's book refers to him as "Major Benelli") though from the looks of it it doesn't look like a Benelli. The PALS webbing on his body armor has shotgun shells stowed in them.

I just finished watching this whole series. I feel that it was a day well spent-S&Wshooter 22:58, 25 November 2009 (UTC)

Major Todd Eckloff (Benjamin Busch's character) is in fact "Major Benelli" from both books. In the show he carries Remington 870 instead of a Benelli, but then again his portrayal in the series is very different from both Evan Wright's AND Nathaniel Fick's depictions of him (incorporating elements of several real-world marines), so the change of his weapon might be related to the change in personality. vfmadmax

Mystery Revolver

Very early in the beginning of the first episode, when the Marines are getting mail at Camp Matilda, there is a revolver that is sent to them (I think it was from a cop stateside. It kind of gets overshadowed by the great speech in response to Freddy's letter that immediately follows it. I'll try to get a screenshot when I can. ~BanditJack

You sure you aren't confusing this show with another show? Excalibur01 22:49, 24 April 2012 (CDT)

Isn't that from Band of Brothers? --commando552 05:00, 25 April 2012 (CDT)

The quality of the screencaps

Is it just me or are the quality of the screencaps in this page really low quality?-Oliveira 20:05, 6 June 2009 (UTC)

PVS-17 in daylight?

Maybe someone could enlighten me as to why a night sight is shown being used in broad daylight? Spartan198 11:50, 27 December 2009 (UTC)

he switches it of you can see in screewby he switches it one again at night most of the time it isn't shown when he does that, I bet he didn't have another scope to mount so he just used it switched of

the scope can be used during the day or night. If you notice the cover on the lens, it has a small hole in it, this allows a small amount of light into the unit if the cover was removed during the day time it would danage the scope. At night the lens cap is removed .

Actually the scope Colbert uses in the series is just a prop, and doesn't quite look like a AN/PVS-17.

i recently bought the book after watching the series and love them both. in the middle of the book it has a series of pictures in cluding thereal brad colbert with an M4 with M203 and night-vision scope. the same setup his M4 has in the series and many other soldiers have the same setup aswell smish34

-Real operators used NV scopes in broad daylight because they can see their AN/PEQs laser (you know, those infrared aiming devices). I assumed it'll be the most logical answer there is. Oh well, just sharing my mind right now... [TeeKev]

Older Teardrop Forward Assists on m4 Carbines?

What's up with that? I don't think Colt ever made m4s with anything but the newer round style forward assist.

- maybe an airsoft replica? i read a discussion on an airsoft board where they claimed they could read Classic Army designations on the guns in some scenes (then there was a flamewar about it...)

It's possible that they may have used some airsoft M4s for the non-firing scenes, but I would never take the airsoft community's word for it. Airsofters tend to be full of crap and think that every movie uses airsoft guns and CGI muzzle flashes (because most of them don't appreciate how much more expensive and unrealistic CGI is for creating muzzle flashes...it's actually cheaper to use the real thing and blanks).

Anyway, it is kind of strange that the M4s in this movie have the teardrop forward assist, but it's fairly easy to replace forward assists on AR upper receiver units. I've seen pictures of M16A1s with the round forward assist (even though Colt only made them with teardrop) and M16A2s with the teardrop forward assist (in fact, many of Colt's early AR-15 A2 uppers had the teardrop style). It's possible that whatever armorer supplied the weapons for this movie just happened to have an abundance of teardrop forward assists in inventory, but it certainly doesn't mean the weapons are airsoft. -MT2008 02:47, 6 April 2010 (UTC)

I actually never paid too much attention to the forward assist and never knew about the different styles, Excalibur01

I did notice a Classic Army airsoft M4 in one scene of Episode 4 (been seeing a lot of those in movies/TV recently, i.e. The Hurt Locker). But most of the M4s on this show are real guns; the teardrop forward assist is something that can be replaced in maintenance. -MT2008 14:19, 3 July 2010 (UTC)

There were 15 real M4's, 20 Airsoft (Not classic army though, G&G )and around 40 rubber moulded M4's used on the show. The Real M4's were not Colt models as non were available in South Africa, they were made in Vietnam! Airsofts and rubbers were used a lot throughout for almost all of the weapons if not close to camera or if damage was likely. [[Lance Peters (talk) 10:13, 4 January 2015 (EST)]]

It is possibly likely that the real M4A1’s were just built up from real uppers with UTG quad handguards and other parts such as the A1 teardrop forward assist, then fitted on a different kind of AR lower reciever to replicate M4’s used by the Recon Marines in 2003. The same thing can be seen in Strike Back when Porter uses a similar M4 due to filming in South Africa. [[MrJDK9412 (talk) 17:00, 31 July 2023 (AEST)]]

MrJDK9412: Lance Peters (the guy whose post appears directly above yours) was the show's armorer, so you can take the above as gospel. And he says that the M4s were the Vietnamese-made copies of the Norinco CQ, not actual M4s. -MT2008 (talk) 21:39, 31 July 2023 (UTC)

M733?

That barrel looks a bit long to be an M733 Excalibur01

I think it is an M733, the picture is low quality which (combined with the motion blur of the scene) makes it hard to distinguish where the barrel ends and the flash hider begins, thus making the barrel appear longer. Then again I'm no expert on AR variants, so take that for what you will. If anyone with a higher quality image (or more knowledge on ARs than I) could confirm/correct the entry, that would be great.--Lynx 23:14, 1 February 2010 (UTC)

Colt Model 733 SMG - 5.56x45mm.

Another view of the Marine's Colt 733.

Look at the length of the handguards, it's not a shorty. --Predator20 23:31, 1 February 2010 (UTC)

The Marine not wearing his helmet carries the Colt 733.

Okay, anybody have any ideas as to what it is then?--Lynx 21:54, 2 February 2010 (UTC) Hard to say. Barrel length looks longer than a 733, but the handguards look too long to make it a 723. Spartan198 17:53, 3 February 2010 (UTC)

No, look at the forward assist. Its an MGC replica. Spartan198 17:58, 3 February 2010 (UTC)

Good caps, guys

Whoever capped this should be commended. Really good shots, not too many, not too few. They also LOOK really good.-protoAuthor 21:22, 3 February 2010 (UTC)

• The user who uploaded those screencaps was Ben41. You may congratulate him for that. - Kenny99 22:55, 2 June 2010 (UTC)

PEQ-IV

Does anyone know if the AN/PEQ-IV (the type of laser aiming module seen on many of the Marines' M4s in this series) is actually used by any service in real life? I've only ever seen airsofters (who can't afford PEQ-2s) using them. I didn't think the PEQ-IV was considered mil-spec equipment. -MT2008 14:06, 3 July 2010 (UTC)

  -It's actually AN/PAQ-IV, but yes it is mil-spec and was widely used by the USMC in the earlier stages of the Iraq War.  
   However they are technically inaccurate to Force Recon, who make use of the SOPMOD package for their M4/M16's, which includes the 
   AN/PEQ-2, not the PAQ-4.

Thanks for the info. I just did some more reading, and it turns out that the Recon Marines were using the PAC-4/C literally right up until the invasion when they started getting the PEC-2s. Also, I notice that in the images of 1st Recon that appear in the book Generation Kill, several of the Marines do in fact have PEC-2s on their M4s. -MT2008 23:58, 8 August 2010 (UTC)

What's with using Roman numerals? Spartan198 09:16, 22 November 2011 (CST)

M-136 use.

One can be seen being used in the Johnny cash montage at the ending. An M-240 can be seen being used also.

the M4s in this show

Here is a Blu-Ray image of Sgt. Colbert with his M4 in the last episode of the series:

(Enlarge this to full-size by clicking twice on it)

All of the M4s in this show appear to be fitted with accessories that are not mil-specification. Some questions I have:

(1.) What brand lower receiver is Colbert's M4 built upon? It doesn't seem to be Colt; the markings on the magazine well look wrong. Anyone have any thoughts on who manufactured these lowers? (we've already pointed out that the uppers have the older teardrop forward assist; maybe the maker of the uppers is the same as lowers)

(2.) Contrary to what the page says, none of the firing M4s in the show are fitted with Knight's Armament RAS forearms (although the airsoft Classic Army M4s that are used as non-firing stand-ins do have KAC). You can see that the forearms have four wide air slits, rather than seven circular holes (as on KAC forearms), so they must be some other brand. Can anyone tell me what?

(3.) Sgt. Rudy Reyes also has a vertical foregrip on his M4 that does not seem to be either KAC or ERGO (again, contrary to the page). Any thoughts on the brand?

-MT2008

The rail covers on the rails in the above screen cap are UTG, I am not sure of the rail system itself though. It is possible they used UTG rails for filming even on the firing rifles.

Yep, you are correct. Both the rail forearms and the rail covers are made by UTG. It also looks like the rubber pistol grips on many of the M4s, as well as Sgt. Reyes' vertical foregrip, also were made by UTG. Apparently, the show's armorers really like UTG accessories for some reason. Nice catch, thanks! -MT2008 16:15, 5 January 2011 (UTC)

MK-19 AGL

The screen cap labeled "MK19 AGL disassembled" is incorrect. The weapon is fully assembled in that cap, but not mounted.

agreed, just removed from the mounts, i'l make the change, if theres someone that has used a MK,19 and can say its disassembled then go ahead and change it back. also if there is any guys that have used a MK:19 the series portrays it as a half decent weapon that jams every time its used, i wouldn't mind hearing a comment from a present/past user of one scarecrow 14:06, 4 February 2011 (UTC)

Never used one, but in the series they were always short of LSA to lubricate the barrels, so that would explain why they always jammed.--Crackshot 03:55, 20 February 2011 (UTC)

My brother used one whilst in Iraq and said they were quite awesome to shoot, but you needed to clean and grease them an unhealthy amount of times a day. -The Winchester

Colbert's night-vision scope

I was just wounder: How come Colbert using his M4's NV scope on both day and night, even though he used an ACOG in the beginning of the first episode? --RaNgeR 12:41, 22 November 2011 (CST)

• Ive often thought about that too, i guess maybe he bought the ACOG when he went to A-stan. When you think about how he and Ray spent hundreds on the humvee, its probably not out of the question about him buying custom gun parts. Would explain why he is the only person with an optic. -The Winchester

Would explain why he is the only person with an optic.

I think that you're over-thinking this. This is a TV mini-series, not real life. In real life, Force Recon Marines at the time used almost entirely issued weapons and accessories. While Colbert is the only one of the Recon Marines who uses optics on his M4 on the show, this was not the case in real life - if you look at photographs of the real-life 1st Recon which appear in the book, you'll see that almost all of them used either ACOGs or Aimpoints on their M4s during the events depicted in the series. The pictures do suggest that Colbert was the only person in the battalion (or at least in his platoon) who used an AN/PVS-17, though. As for why most of the Recon Marines on the show seem to be using the standard carry handle/iron sights instead of optics, I would guess the answer is that the armorers just didn't have enough optics to issue to all of the actors. But who knows - the only thing I can tell you is that the depiction of the M4's accessories on the show does not appear to be accurate. -MT2008 23:01, 22 November 2011 (CST)

Another thing to keep in mind is that Brad, as described in Evan's book, is a techie geek who loves gadgets. It's entirely possible, being an unmarried E-6 in the Marines (and therefore having some nice disposable income), that he sprung for his own attachments. I don't have the book yet (just ordered it off Amazon), and I've seen the series several times, so I can't be sure of that, but it would seem feasible to me. Cozmo 16:23, 4 December 2011 (CST)

Mis-used PEQ-2/PAQ-4s?

I'm sure my misconception comes from lack of practical experience (I was an armorer for a number of years in the Army, but I got out before we were issued anything really hi-tech), but at the ranges these guys were at, wouldn't it have made sense to issue the laser designators with ACOGs or something like that so that you could actually see the specific target from farther away? I know you can use it as an aiming point for firing the rifle, but wouldn't that be kind of useless if the target was beyond visual range of the laser?Cozmo 16:49, 4 December 2011 (CST)

While I'm not in a position to comment on the practicality of using IR designators without other optics, the book has a few pictures of Marines using M4s with PEQ-2s and iron sights, so what we see in the show is at least somewhat accurate to real life. Now, granted there were far more guys who had night vision scopes on their weapons (rather than just Colbert) but I imagine that's more of a budget issue than anything else.--Lynx 20:34, 4 December 2011 (CST)

As I said in the previous section, this mini-series does not at all accurately depict the configuration of the M4s used by the 1st Recon Marines in 2003. In real life, almost all of them used optics, as per the norm for SF units back then (and now regular infantry today). Also, Lynx, where do you see pictures of any Recon Marines using M4s with iron sights and PEQ-2s (but no optics) in your copy of the book? I'm looking at my copy of Generation Kill right now, and from what I can tell, they all have ACOGs or Aimpoints on their M4s. I see only one guy whose M4 just has the standard carry handle/iron sights, and it also doesn't look like he has a PEQ-2. That guy seems to be the real-life exception to the rule, whereas in this show, nobody besides Colbert uses any of the sighting devices in the SOPMOD kit. -MT2008 13:42, 14 December 2011 (CST)

I don't have my book in front of me (and won't until January) but I remember in the last picture (the big group photo of the whole platoon) in the bottom right someone (think it was Lovell) has an M4 with an M203, iron sights, and a PEQ-2.--Lynx 16:21, 14 December 2011 (CST)

I think you're right. Number 23 (bottom right) definitely has an IR laser and no optical sights. In fact, I can't see any optical sights (although you can only see a few rifles well enough to make them out as this is the only pic I could find and is tiny). Regardless, while using an IR laser an ACOG would have been useless, as you wouldn't be able to look through it with the kind of goggles they had as you wouldn't physically be able to line the tube of the night vision device up with the sight. I think the monocular night vision they used (AN/PVS-14?) has magnification anyway. --commando552 19:17, 14 December 2011 (CST)

I'm no expert here, but I'm fairly certain that the point of an infrared laser (or indeed any laser at all) is to have a point of aim without using your sights since wearing a head-mounted nod device would make aiming through your sights kind of difficult due to how far it sticks out from your head. Spartan198 22:21, 14 December 2011 (CST)

Additional

Lance Cpl. Harold Trombley (Billy Lush) ranges the Mk.19.

A Marine mans his Mk.19.

Not a M4

While rewatching the series I noticed in the Episode 4: Combat Jack at around the 6 minute mark, that a Marine was carrying a carbine with a M16A1 upper receiver. [edit] On closer look, it appears to be a MCG CAR-15, as it has the distinctive Bolt-Style Forward assist. I can not take shot as I do not own the series on physical media. MalikLucas (talk)

There's already a topic from 10 years ago about this gun (it's the one titled "M733"). Here are the pics:

-MT2008 (talk) 11:35, 10 December 2021 (EST)