Talk:Browning Automatic Rifle

Additional Variants

Ohio Ordnance HCAR - .30-06 Springfield

Discussion

Colt R80 Moniter

R80 Colt Monitor - The Colt Monitor was the most modern of the Browning Automatic Rifles. The bipod was deleted but it had a pistol grip, an 18-inch barrel and a 4 inch Cutts compensator on the end. It weighs in at around 16 lbs.The key changes in the R80 (in comparison to the BAR) came in reducing its barrel length and associated gas system by several inches, but adding a highly engineered muzzle compensator known as a Cutts compensator. The compensator, in combination with the pistol grip made the R80 well balanced and easier to handle in full-auto fire.

The other key attribute, while overlooked by some, was the reduction in weight by near 4.5 pounds. A 20 pound rifle reduced to 16 was a major step in portability. Colt only made 125 of these between 1931 and 1940. The FBI purchased approximately 90 of them. I would imagine that means a few have been held onto and are in storage for historical purposes. The rest were probably crushed and melted down. Ugh. The Federal Government. Incidentally for anyone wanting one of these prices are now running between $100,000 -$150,000. And that's just an estimate. They are very well made. Excellent quality. One of these was used by Frank Hamer when he ambushed Bonnie & Clyde. --Jcordell (talk) 14:58, 7 January 2013 (EST)

FBI agent training with a couple Colt R80 Moniters circa 1930's.

Colt Model of 1925(R75) Commercial BAR. The Model 1925 was produced in various calibers, including .30-06 Springfield (7.62x63mm), 7.65x53mm Belgian Mauser, 7x57mm Mauser, 7.92x57mm Mauser, and .303 British (7.7x56mmR). Note no Cutts compensator unlike the R80 in the image above.

Prices

In 1931 a Colt manufactured BAR (i.e. R75 & R80) could be purchased for $300.00. In 2012 dollars that's over $5,000 dollars. With that type of price tag it's obvious why Colt didn't sale very many to private citizens before the passage of the National Firearms Act of 1934. After that Colt stopped trying to interest civilan buyers. --Jcordell (talk) 15:17, 7 January 2013 (EST)

I hate to sound like a gun grabber, but I genuinely don't know what practical use someone could have for a full-auto only rifle that fires .30-06. Unless you're a private security guard or lived in a very rough neighborhood, I don't know under what circumstances a BAR would work that a Thompson or M1 Garand wouldn't be better (and a lot cheaper to feed, obviously). I sell ammo for a living, and .30-06 is really expensive to this day; I can't imagine trying to outfit a BAR for sustained use on a normal person's income. That said, I feel like the impracticality of the rifle should preclude it from being banned, since it's not something the average criminal will even be able to use, due to the prohibitive cost of ammo. I could be wrong on that last part, though; I don't know what .30-06 cost back in the 20s and 30s. --That's the Way It's Done (talk) 14:33, 25 September 2016 (EDT)

In the early 1930's the so-called "motorized bandits" (Bonnie & Clyde, Dillinger, Pretty Boy Floyd etc) were wearing body armor and often driving vehicles made of heavy gauge steel. The average police officer back then carried a .38 Special revolver or even a 32 caiber revolver. IF they carried a long-gun it was usually a Winchester in 44-40, 32-20 or 30-30 (maybe) and maybe a twelve gauge shotgun usually loaded with buckshot or even birdshot. Most of those loads couldn't penetrate the steel autobodies and body armor.Even the 44 Special and 45 ACP had some issues which was brought about the 38 Super, 38/44 High Velocity and the .357 Magnum, but I'm digressing. The 30-06 would punch through as well. Colt marketed the Monitor to law enforcement for just that reason and didn't really seek the private gun-owner though they could legally own them at the time.--Jcordell (talk) 16:32, 21 November 2016 (EST)

Do you mean use then or now? For now, the use of one would be the same for all the other transferable machine guns, which is just cause(potentially as an investment). It would be expensive to feed, but so are most of the autos these days. As for then, BARs didn't have all that much of a practical use by the regular joe, as did most machine guns. That is why most people never owned an auto. Pistols, shotguns, and rifles were the go to for the average person. --Zombiedrd (talk) 22:15, 25 September 2016 (EST)